Transcript

[0:00] Think Physicians and I think all professions there’s something about.
Being coached by somebody who’s been through the same thing that you’ve been through there’s a there’s a relationship there’s a relational understanding that’s already a given you don’t have to explain things.

[0:22] Paging dr. cook paging dr. cook dr. Turk you wanted in the o.r. dr. come here.

[0:29] Music.

[0:52] Hello everyone and welcome to prescription for Success I’m dr. Randy cook your host for the podcast which is a production of MD coaches.

[1:02] Providing leadership and Executive coaching for Physicians by physicians.

[1:07] To overcome burnout transition your career develop as a leader or whatever your goal might be visit MD coaches on the web at my MD coaches.com because you’re not in this alone.

[1:22] Well on today’s episode we’re featuring dr. Dale Waxman now Dale was a guest for episode number 31 of RX for success.

[1:32] And since that time he has joined him D coaches as a part of our coaching team.

[1:37] So we asked him to join me for another interview this time to tell us more about the coaching experience so let’s hear that conversation.

[1:46] Music.

[1:51] I’m really looking forward to today’s episode because I’m going to get to talk to someone that we have had on the show in the past and that’s dr. Dale Waxman Dale it’s great to have you back again it’s great to be back again Randy thank you.
In the last time we talked you were actually episode number 31.

[2:13] And I think we I think we titled your episode The mindful doc yeah.

[2:21] Episode number 31 so how do you feel about having that title did we get it right.

[2:28] Well that’s certainly something that I practice and I espouse I might practice mindfulness meditation there are many other Physicians,
who are doing really great work in bringing mindfulness to Medicine.
And so it felt a little bit like I was elevated beyond what I am,
having said that it is something that I think I do bring to the work that I do,
largely because I learned from this from some many good teachers and how to integrate mindfulness within what I do
I think they’re there are others that you can interview and I’ll give you those names from time well that just fair enough and I’m not sure
prized that you’re showing a good bit of humility because you always do but that was certainly the way that you
struck me and I want to invite our listeners who might not have heard episode number 31 in the past too.

[3:30] Please go back and listen to it because I think you’ll find it very interesting we always talk to our guests about their Journey,
to becoming a physician and what Dale had to offer was really substantially different from most of the stories so I think it’s worth.
Go back to Listen to If you haven’t heard it and even a real listen if you have heard it but today
we won’t have a conversation about what it’s like to be a coach and what it’s like to become a coach I’m just absolutely delighted that dr. Dale Waxman has joined us on the MD coaches team he’s part of our group now
and we are blessed and honored to have him
and I want to go back for a moment to talk about something that you told me early in your previous interview and that was that in the beginning you really didn’t.

[4:20] Have any particular aspirations to be a physician in fact you wanted to be in the radio television and film business and it was your dad.
Prevailed upon you to do something else are you happy with your decision.
That’s a great question I just retired from a long career and academic Family Medicine so I’m no longer doing clinical Family Medicine however I’m still doing some teaching and of course coaching
but that act of retirement allowed me to reflect
quite a bit as those who have retired and have prepared to retire have thought about their career and you know I have to say that overall I’m glad that I did what I did.

[5:07] And in the end I don’t know whether my father saw something in me that I didn’t see in myself or I just created.
A carved out a niche for myself.
With in this world that fit for me is probably a little bit of both and overall I feel like I really did
enjoy what I was able to derive but also what I was able to give not just to patients but also to Learners as well.
It certainly was feeling like a square peg in a round hole a lot of the time and that didn’t always feel easy but when I look back on it it seems to have paid off.
Yeah that’s exactly what I got from our prior conversation in the interesting thing to me is that you were never seemingly satisfied with the way things were being done and.
Without being conscious of it I think you were truly and substantially
a disruptor that analogy that you just mentioned about being the square peg in the round hole when we talked before it sounded to me as if early.

[6:21] In your experience you just really felt like either something was not right or.
You were a little uncomfortable and I don’t I don’t know if you foresaw that you were going to
bring about some changes but you certainly have and I’m wondering if looking back on it we’re those thoughts in your head that there is a better way to do things and maybe I can be part of that just was that part of you at all
yeah that’s a great great question I have a very clear memory of.
Being between my first and second year of medical school and I had traveled to Europe and then to Israel and I was with my brother.
Who is living in Israel at the time I remember I have a very clear memory of talking to him about.

[7:08] I am going to be bringing something I really I said this I said here’s what I’m interested in I think I’m going to be bringing this.
To medicine and for me at the time it was the big as I heard as you heard in the earlier podcast.
I didn’t think that medicine attended enough to the mental health,
the psychological behavioral aspects to health and healing and biomedicine and I remember and I was very intrigued with that.
And I felt like it was really missing and certainly was missing in my first year of medical school but it really it didn’t really show up later on very much either and so he sort of was like
yeah good luck with that kind of thing he wasn’t in medicine but he said you know a lot of people get excited about mental health and then.
You know it is what it is but I do I do have a memory of that.
And my language about it now and I just gave a talk to.

[8:11] But it when I was retiring my department honored me with a celebration and I asked to be able to kind of give a talk of you know what have I learned over the years and my.
My language for that is that Physicians go into medicine for.
A wide variety of reasons and most of us have all of those reasons,
in our and that are behind us all the way from I like the intellectual challenge I like the technical challenge.
I want to make a difference in people’s lives there’s a Financial Security all of those are true.

[8:46] And one of them that is often kind of is down in the list is,
is Karen you know that we really cared really humanistic that was a you know all of those are true for me too but the one that I had led with was caring.

[8:59] And I didn’t see it a lot you know in my training but that’s that was my choice it’s a lead there.
And and I think that over the years that has become a little bit higher up in terms of priority.
In education thanks to people just like you I might add.
Well thank you I appreciate that I want to ask you strictly an opinion do you think medical education is rushed.
Do we try to make it happen too quickly
yeah you know I’m going to say I’m pausing because I’m going to say yes and no I I think it happens
to quickly but I also wonder about is the curriculum the appropriate curriculum
I think that’s what I’m getting at and feel free to take it from there yeah I know I’m not an expert on this now but I’m aware that there are some very.
Innovative curricula in some very Progressive Medical Schools nowadays and.
They are focusing on things differently than what you and I focused on early on.

[10:09] And I think there’s also some messaging about the basic sciences and maybe some trimming,
I’ve some of that to like what’s really relevant in clinical medicine there’s also additional things in the curriculum compared to when you and I were there so if they’re packing more in I sure hope there,
reducing other places or extending the amount of time yeah and I,
I think you have to ask what could you drop out what did we learn that was not valuable in my own opinion is everything was valuable but I’ll give you an example of some serious stupidity the time that I spent in medical school.
The great University of Alabama in Birmingham had decided there was no need to stretch it over four years we’ll just do it in three and I can’t tell you.
What a struggle that wise,
and they’ve they had the wisdom to abandon that after a two-year experiment and they’re back at for years now but I have often wondered if it didn’t make more sense just to accept the fact that it takes
longer for example in India if I’m not mistaken medical school is is it’s a six-year course
yeah and would we have a better chance of helping students.

[11:24] Not only develop a good scientific basis for medicine but a more empathetic mindset toward medicine if we just,
slowed it down or is that asking too much of the system you know again I’m not I’m not as involved in medical student education curriculum.
I do know that there’s you know shifts about what are we focusing on here and there
I will say that the students don’t seem to be quite as stressed least their response to it is not as stressed as I felt that I was during that time.
So I don’t know whether that’s just the quality of the upcoming generation that has better idea of how to balance things.
Or whether they’re the curriculum is actually more correct with the way things are.

[12:09] By the way my brother at the University of Kansas they also he also did it in three years they had a few years of doing it three years in a row and you know by the time I got there they’re still kind of.
I went to four years.
And there’s they were still reeling from all that I mean even the faculty were like I don’t know what just happened and my brother interestingly my brother felt like it was way too rushed and he actually.
Found I don’t they do this anymore but he did a year after those three years as a what he was called an externship.
So he worked with a surgeon in a small town doing whatever somebody who hasn’t done internship yet could do after medical school.
Good for him yeah he just needed to he needed the break he needed it was pretty rough apparently a few of them let several people did that I actually asked for that I asked them to please give me another year and they said.

[13:05] Not going to happen you know it’s interesting I know they’re not specifically talk about medical education but you know this is kind of relevant with kind of the topic we’re,
heading I think you know one of the things that that was tough for me,
and I think it’s probably I’m not alone in this but in the basic Sciences.

[13:25] So now you have a bunch of people who were pre-med who did excellent and
pretty much in the pre-med courses a lot of us could have taught those curses because we knew it so well to be able to get the medical through then you get into medical school and then
somehow passing you know is becomes the goal not you know being excellent at it and I felt like those things were reversed it sounded like.
How can they how can they enter the Medical Faculty.
How can they allow me to go on what kind of a doctor am I going to be if I’ve only gotten 76 percent of the answers correct.

[14:05] And that was my mindset and it was really it was really that was very very stressful.

[14:12] And it ended it culminated me taking a leave of absence because I just felt like I need to really rethink this but I think that that speaks to the mindset that a lot of us have.

[14:24] And it does create some challenges later than as well as later on in our careers.
Which you and I who are in coaching we kind of help people examine that and sort of pick up the pieces from that
hi I’m Rhonda Crow founder and CEO for empty coaches here on RX for Success we interview a lot of great medical professionals on how they grew their careers
how they overcame challenges and how they handle day-to-day work.

[14:57] I really hope you’re getting a lot of great information but if you’re looking for an answer to a specific problem management or Administration challenge.
Or if you’re feeling just a bit burnt out like maybe you chose the wrong career.
Well then there’s a faster way to get the help you need now it’s not counseling it’s coaching.
RX for success is produced by MD coaches a team of Physicians who have been where you are I know you’re used to going it alone,
but you don’t have to get the support you need today visit us at my MD coaches.com to schedule your complimentary consultation.
Again that’s my MD coaches.com because you’re not in this alone.

[15:43] We’ll get back to our interview in just a moment but right now I want to tell you a little bit about physician Outlook
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[16:47] And now let’s get back to today’s interview all these questions so.
For have been sort of veiled attempts to get you to talk about.
What we could be doing better and you know what I when I look at your,
your academic path I noticed right away that Upon finishing medical school and finishing
the basics of getting qualified to be certified in Family Practice you wanted to do some other things and I think the first thing on that list was a fellowship in faculty development if I got it in the right order
that’s correct.
What I’m getting at is it sounds to me that even at that very young age it’s it looks to me as if you sensed that we weren’t doing medical education in exactly the right way then you wanted to do something about it am I misreading it or not.
Well there’s two reasons why did affect the development fellowship and it’s a little similar to my brother after three years of residency I really didn’t know what I wanted to do and I was like I don’t think I want to do practice full-time but I don’t know what I’m going to do
and the fellowship / chief resident position.

[18:05] Was my academic advisor had said hey this is open would you be we think you’re you’d be pretty good at this would you be interested I said,
yeah that sounds great now having said that I also as a med student I was very motivated to,
yeah just remember kind of the the learning by humiliation that was often used you know the the pimping if you will which and I understand some of the reason for it it’s I think a,
a little bit of a Twist on Socratic method without a lot of compassion and but I do remember very clearly that it felt to me in many situations,
that what was happening.
In that kind of rounding pimping was more of an opportunity for the people asking the question to demonstrate how much they knew.
It wasn’t of service to the learner.
I remember having a very clear memory when I was a third-year student saying if I’m ever in a position to be a teacher.
I will not do this what I will do what I will do is I will ask the question.
Do you instead of what is what is the differential diagnosis of X I will ask do you know.

[19:25] Because do you know the differential diagnosis because that’s that’s observers to the learner.
You know I want to assess the letter I don’t want to send about me saying how much I know so it kind of fit it was like this is a great opportunity I can get into affect the development fellowship and,
maybe that’s a that’s a direction that I can find myself going
it proved to be accurate that was it was mostly it was mostly a decompression year but it was a great Fellowship to learn about the craft of being a faculty member and I really enjoyed it,
and I think that gives us a pretty good segue into the discussion about coaching
and I’m interested to know when that idea came into your head when did you first begin to think that becoming a coach would be a good idea.
And then how did you go about making it happen so we started this conversation with sort of the mindful peace and I got into mindfulness meditation.
In 2007 and it was a kind of another layer of.

[20:28] My interest in mind-body things and.
So I got into mindfulness meditation and I was reading most of what was in the medical literature about mindfulness
so a partner in my co faculty member in my department pulled me into his office one day they said you know I’m in charge of this local
Primary Care update conference for family physicians and mid-levels and I need you to I want you to talk about something because you give good talks and I said I kind of feel like I’ve talked about everything I know to talk about and he said
we’ll have you read any good articles lately and I said yeah there’s this great article that is in Jama this is 2009 that was published about.

[21:09] Use a mindfulness group for Primary Care clinicians.
Byron Epstein and Mick krasner up in up in Western New York and they use mindfulness groups.
And then they studied several outcomes one of the outcomes was was burnout,
in this is before burnout was a household term in the medical world and so he I was interested in the the mindfulness part of it.
He said well burnout would be a really good topic to hear about at this conference and I said I don’t know anything about burnout because yeah but that be really good topic
I said all right I guess I’ll guess I’ll do burnout I don’t know know it can be re hands required right I said maybe I’ll bring in something about mindfulness so anyway I’m preparing for this there wasn’t as much in the literature then there’s there’s enough but there wasn’t as much
as there is now and there’s much known about it wasn’t a household word as I said.
And all the time I’m preparing this Randy I was somewhat resentful because I like I don’t know anything about this and I got to talk about this and look like I’m an expert about it and and I put the whole thing together in a resenting my colleague,
and then I get there they present it and this is 2010 and it touched a nerve of every person in the room.

[22:29] And that wasn’t about me it was really about the topic,
and then I support maybe there’s something here it’s touching nerves people are responding to this on a personal level and it morphed into workshops and talks is the most requested talk I’ve had.
Anywhere and I you know of course I changed it depending on the audience and all the way to talking to the medical staff at the hospital affiliated with the time.

[22:56] And people who never said anything to me before in The Doctors Lounge saying you know the talk you gave that really impacted me that made me think about
you know what’s going on with me and what’s going on with my group so that led me into saying there’s something here and I ought to be doing something about physician well-being,
and burnout prevention and I got onto every committee that there was attending to that in the healthcare system and really it became a passion and
I ended up in 2016 at the International Conference on physician health
and when I went to this conference which was in Boston that year there were just a few exhibitors you know as there often are in medical conferences but three of those six or seven or eight
coaching schools
what’s that all about it what’s coaching all of you know what’s coaching and I knew it I knew a little bit about what coaching was at had a coach earlier in my career for a limited amount of time but I was like why is that here in the international coaching
I’m an International Conference on physician health and instant breakout sessions during the conference there were several physician coaches.

[24:10] Who in their talks would say if you are interested in physician well-being,
and you want to do something about it we highly recommend that you go get some training in coaching,
so I did so I enrolled in coaching school I’d looked at a few and I ended up in one called to healthcare coach Institute which was designed by a coaching firm.
Specifically to bring together people from different sectors of healthcare to come together and train together and maybe.
From there begin making some.
Needed changes in our Health Care system from a coaching perspective this was a face-to-face sort of instruction or you doing it really was about it was both it was both we had intensives that were in person we had three of those that were
for 25 days long and then we had virtual training on a weekly basis and this is over about a year if I remember correctly,
and once you got your education as it were behind you and soon-to-be certification I’m sure
how did you go about finding clients.
Yeah well actually throughout that we had to find clients and that’s a great question because I would when I told people I was trained as a coach people in my department especially said well that’s kind of I thought you did anyway.

[25:34] And I said well I mean I get that that’s why people come to me for advice and for mentorship and things like that but.
Coaching really is a little bit different of a model than mentorship and giving advice and being an academic advisor what I did is people who came to me to get advice I would say.

[25:54] I’m practicing this new thing called coaching can we have this conversation a little bit different of a way using these skills.
That’s how I got clients Randy I mean it was that was a practice but in some of those people were my residents.
This Is Res res has graduated and actually a lot of my clients are former residents that I had I also made it known when I was still in the healthcare system that this is something that I did.
And I would get residents from different programs other than the family medicine program where I taught.
Um would also be referred to me and then just mostly it’s just by people that I knew that knew that I was doing this and then they would tell people that I was doing this at,
they thought that they could benefit from coaching and that’s that’s how I that’s how I got the clients.
One of the questions that I hear a lot is you know what exactly is coaching all about is I mean is it is this like therapy or something like that so what’s your answer to that house coaching different from therapy.
It’s a great question and an important question for people to know the distinction coaching is a thought.
Partnership.

[27:08] That somebody engages in with a coach that coaches the thought partner when said person is having a dilemma or there.
Thinking about doing something a little bit differently or they would like some input and feedback about how they are doing things right now.
It’s a thought partner a person who can hold up the mirror and say here is what I’m saying in a reflective,
listening or reflective inquiry way to assist the person the Kochi if you will.
To be able to develop insight and in from their development of insight to then be able to that Kochi then,
we see them as a very resourceful intelligent smart person who can make decisions for themselves and they get that inside then they say well I guess I think this is what I need to do,
so it’s a thought partnership where Insight is created,
the coach asks a lot of questions a lot of questions and a lot of reflecting it is not really about giving advice or it’s really not about mentorship.
It’s not about them you know and I was in this this is what I did it’s really about honoring that person the coachee has.
The where with all the wisdom they have the whole resourceful creative individuals so that’s that’s what coaching is.

[28:36] Another way to think about coaching is there’s a rumor out there that the word coaching comes from.
The stagecoach in the and I mean I’ve read I looked this up it’s not I’ve only heard it once I didn’t see it anywhere else when I looked it up but I kind of like this.

[28:53] The stagecoach took you from point A to point B so we’re here right now we’re in Alabama right now we want to get to New York.
In the stagecoach is going to take me from Alabama to New York.
The coach does that to it’s a forward movement okay so we’re the the Kochi says.
Here’s what I think that I’d like to be different here’s where I’m heading.
In the coaches there to assist them from where they are right now the current state to help them get to the Future state.
The way that that’s different from therapy and I’m not going to say coaching by the way is can be therapeutic.
And but it’s not therapy and the way that I think about therapy is.

[29:38] All the stuff that happens before point a that may be so entangled that it may be difficult for somebody to go from point A to point B
that stuff is what therapists are for to help disentangle that to help understand stuff from your background and your past that may be blocking you from moving yourself forward,
so the step before point a is therapy and that’s a very very simplistic view of it I want to just honor my therapy colleagues but for coaching it’s really about forward movement,
it’s a thought partner to help somebody move forward is it always one to one.
It’s not always wonder 1 there is such a thing as group coaching and group coaching is there’s a coach and then there’s a group of.
Any number of people up to probably no more than 8 to 12 where those individuals are all.
Kind of working in the same direction they’re interested in something I did a group coaching session for wellbeing for residents a few years back.
I said they were all interested in improving their well-being and so so the group The Power of the group.
Is that there is a little bit of one-on-one time but the group is also assisting by also offering those Reflections and helping the individuals develop Insight they’re still forward movement as the individual.

[31:01] But the group energy also they noticed some things that I don’t notice as the coach so the group coaching can be a really effective way to move through things as well,
do you help people
make that decision from time to time like you know I think we’re making some good progress here but a group might be a good fit for you is that something that you offer or do you wait for them to bring it up how does that work
the way I’ve done the way I’ve seen it is kind of two separate offerings.
There’s one to one coaching in there’s also group coaching if anything it’s kind of the other way around often a group coaching will lead to one-on-one coaching.
I’m somebody want they’ve learned something and they want to do a little bit more I know in therapy it kind of goes in the reverse people start with a therapist,
121 and often they’ll say I think you’d benefit from being in a group that’s the way that I see it though.
Do you think a physician who is entertaining the idea of being coached is it important for them to be coached by a physician.
I don’t think they need to be coached by a physician I had a coach who is not a physician this individual worked in healthcare and I think that was actually helpful,
but having said that I think that.

[32:17] We tended to respond better we imbue our coaches with some qualities,
when they have some familiarity with what we do and I want to be careful here because it’s really easy and you and I have talked about this Randy it’s real easy for those of us who are physician coaches.

[32:40] It’s really easy when we have physician clients.
To drop into giving advice because that’s kind of what we did in our work with hard to resist in fact hard to resist if I consulted you about a patient you would say well here’s what you need to do.
And so if I if I consulted a colleague about I’m not really sure what practice to join they would probably just say we’ll go do this one you know it’s right
it’s real hard for us Physicians to not get into that advice-giving piece but having said that I think Physicians
and I think all professions there’s something about,
being coached by somebody who’s been through the same thing that you’ve been through there’s a there’s a relationship there’s a relational understanding,
that’s already a given you don’t have to explain things and so I think that’s not necessary but I think it helps a lot of Physicians when they select a physician,
yeah I think that makes a lot of sense
and unlike Psychotherapy where there are patterns of pathology that are recognizable to a psychiatrist that needs
specific Intervention when you’re talking about coaching it’s an entirely different idea about what the nature of the problem is and what options there are to approach the problem and.

[34:03] To be in the presence of someone who has had a similar experience with education and development and day-to-day life you can’t help but think.
That there is an advantage there yeah I think the word credibility comes up and you know I’ve you’ve walked in my shoes so even if you don’t you didn’t walk in my specific shoes.
There’s we all we all have,
been in this tribe of the culture of medicine and we understand you know even are talking earlier about medical school we understand each other what we mean by that and so whether that is relevant to the coaching or not.
It usually isn’t but somehow that bonds us and I think it creates some increased Effectiveness in the in the coaching relationship
well they’ll I have really enjoyed picking your brain as it were that’s one of the reasons that I do prescription for success I just like to talk to people about
what their life is like and I have really enjoyed this conversation but part of the reason for having you here is because.

[35:10] We want to let our audience know a little bit more about what coaching is all about and how they might benefit from it and how they might get started in the experience so as I do in all of our,
prescription for Success recordings I’m going to get out of your way for is
long as you want to take the mic and give you an opportunity to talk to the audience without my Interruption about things to look for.
And a coach so audience listen carefully this is dr. Dale Waxman talking about things you should look for in a coach.

[35:46] Thank you Randy but before I kind of list things to look for in a coach I just want to invite people to think about you know what are some reasons why to engage a coach and they’ll just keep it simple,
every physician I know of every Healthcare professional I know of Wonders or struggles at times between,
Improvement of their professional lives as well as their personal lives,
a lot of folks that we’re seeing these days struggle with the tension between the two some people are leaving prematurely because they haven’t worked through those particular dilemmas and struggles.
So if those are happening to you or are you just having some.
Professional fulfillment issues I’m not fulfilled and what I do and it’s intern I’m not doing the personal things that I’d like to be doing my personal life is suffering as well those are great reasons for coaching,
you know there’s the great resignation that we’re hearing about and there are we’re seeing a lot of that in healthcare obviously these days.

[36:52] I think this is also an opportunity before leaving is to actually think about renewal.
What we’re saying is physician coaches what we’re seeing in the people that we are working with.
There is definitely burnout there’s definitely disillusionment there’s definitely the sense of and I see this a lot I don’t really want to stay in this anymore I went to leave.

[37:18] What we do in coaching is we kind of help people come back without saying yeah you should leave we come back to what are the reasons you got into this in the first place.

[37:27] What are the things that drive you what are you passionate about what are those things that you went into medical school for what are you going to your profession for,
we explore those and are there some other options for ways and for you to live those particular pieces out,
in your life going forward so I really wanted to say that because that’s a lot of what’s going on in the healthcare culture of these days and it’s a prime,
example of what coaching could be helpful for so having said that Lester’s may be asking how do I decide which you know how do I decide on a coach
a lot of coaches will offer a complimentary session and that’s a way for you to get a feel for how they work a little bit of a feel for how coaching is so
if you do that things to be looking for are are they a good listener and it sounds kind of obvious but are they listening
really well to you in the way you’ll know that is because you’re feeling like you’re being very very heard but even underneath that is do they care about you.

[38:33] Are they carry about you and what you’re experiencing what your challenges are do they hear you and say yeah I really hear how challenging that is and I’m hearing what you care about what
creates passion for you so lets us talk a little bit about how we can create that for you number two is.
His professionalism and the kind of things that they’re going to behave like in that complimentary session or when you go to their website is it professional.
Are they Timely,
do they have very good boundaries of try not to talk about naming other clients there’s there’s no HIPPA laws with with coaching but there certainly are some ethics
are they professional because if they’re not professional on their website and in their interactions with you in a complimentary session they’re probably not going to be in the coaching relationship either
number three a very significant one one of the things that really differentiates coaching.
Is that coaches are coming from a from what’s possible they are going to be asking you questions with a lot of positive energy there’s a lot that comes from in coaching theory that comes from positive psychology.

[39:49] So they’re going to be asking you things and be focusing on things that you are bringing up
that are of a positive quality should they bring a positive energy to they bring a sense of what’s possible for you to they do you leave that complimentary session or any interaction with them feeling
a little bit better more hopeful about what your future is going to be like,
and then finally is experience so a lot of coaches have on their web pages testimonials.

[40:20] So look and read those testimonials and look and see if there are other people like you and your profession,
look for you know it sounds simple but look for happy clients when you’re interviewing coaches ask them about.
The kind of clients that they’ve had not necessarily the types but what are some of the challenges that those that they have dealt with and help people with.

[40:44] I was a little surprised when people are asking me that but I’m glad that they did when they’re interviewing me like what kind of people have you worked with,
what kind of things have you helped people move themselves through.
And how have you helped them and how have they how are they doing now without naming any names of course so do they care are they professional do they exude a positive energy,
and what is their experience and what are what do they testimonials say.
And those are my those are my thoughts that’s a great wrap up great wrap up and I think you have told the story,
how to make the search payoff for you they’ll it’s been great talking to you,
we of course on our coach meetings
every week we get together and I enjoy those conversations but I really get a rush when I have the opportunity to get somebody one-on-one and
really get to ask him what’s in their head and I appreciate you taking the time for me today before we go I want to give you an opportunity to tell the audience
how to find you through MD coaches and any other Avenue that you’d like to tell us about.

[41:55] Well I think the best thing to share with the audience has to find us on the empty coaches website my MD coaches.com that’s right
that’s the best way to get hold of it we all have emails there too and you can contact me directly through email as well as Randy as you already know but we’re all there and that would be the way to connect with us,
and we would love to have all the audience members check us out and inquire there’s
obviously no cost for that
hand please take advantage of the opportunity to look over the website and check out the possibility of the coaching if you have even the remotest interest they all thanks again for taking the time with me today it’s been a lot of fun and I really do appreciate it.
Thank you very much Randy take good care.

[42:46] Thank you so much for joining us today as always we really appreciate a review from you and a five-star rating helps us a lot as well these ratings give our show much more visibility and they help us reach more listeners as well,
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And while you’re there you can offer your very own prescription for success as well as always special thanks to Ryan Jones who created and performs our theme music for the show
and remember be sure and fill your prescription for success with my next episode.

[43:38] Music.