The Trailblazer: Diana Londoño, MD

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[0:54] Randy cook.

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[1:37] You know female urologists are a relatively rare find in the US but their numbers are growing and my guest today has been very successful in that field she’s also a talented writer and a certified life coach so
let’s hear my conversation with dr. Diana londoño.

[2:00] I’m really excited today to be speaking with dr. Diana londoño who is a urologist out in California the Glendora California area am I right about that Diana.
Correct yes Los Angeles but the city is Glendora.
Well thank you so much for being with us today it’s really a pleasure to talk to you I’ve read so much about you and I’m really.
Really excited to get to hear some of the things that I’m curious about so.
Let’s just begin the conversation as we always do with your Beginnings your early life you are actually born,
in Mexico City is that right.
Correct yes I was born and raised in Mexico City and I lived there until I was 12 and then at age 12 week I came to the states my mother and my father separated so I came with my mother
and then I’ve been in the Southern California area basically the whole most of the time except for four years in Miami.
Can you tell us where you think your interest in a medical career came from or where either of your parents involved in medicine or did it come from someplace else.

[3:11] No my father was a businessman and he actually did not have a lot of formal education he when I think up to probably third grade but he was a businessman he had a photography business and it didn’t really
come that’s a from him per se because he was not in the medical field and my mother when she.
Came to the United States with us she actually became like a nurse’s aide so I guess she was sort of involved in caretaking healthcare profession but it wasn’t also that was inspiring for me to go because of that she did.
And actually I did not have many or really any that I really knew of people in my family that were in medicine or health care.
But I think my interest probably started or Keen because when I was around 20 I was 20 years old when you know I would go back and forth sometimes in the summer to visit my father in Mexico City
and in the last visit that I went to see him
my father was very good-looking he was a you know very good-looking Mexican man with beautiful blue eyes kind of like this tan skin.

[4:21] And he was very proud of you know of his looks and he know he should he was very good looking
and when I last one to see him and he was still like relatively young he was in his 60s when I saw him the last time when I arrived in Mexico he didn’t arrive you know
meeting me at the airport you know as he usually did but he was actually in a wheelchair and I didn’t understand
why he was in a wheelchair didn’t understand why there had been a huge sort of decline in his health and it wasn’t till a little bit later that I sort of pieced together because he actually died about three months later but I didn’t
piece together that he actually had metastatic prostate cancer and he died from that that was untreated
which is something that you do not see you know usually first of all in the United States and because you know we have screening and you know we have treatments and you do not
died of metastatic prostate cancer very frequently especially in a very short time
um so basically you know what sort of piece of guy that he had like metastasis to the spine you know and you know he was basically paralyzed from that and then he again pass away you know just a few months later.

[5:35] But it was really during that time when I was last there with them like I said he was very proud he was very good looking
and I really like saw him in you know in diapers and he was like bedroom you know like in a wheelchair and otherwise you know and diapers and kind of being taken care of Around the Clock.

[5:53] Which was again a departure from his.
From him you know that the dead man I knew was a father and there was just something about.
Understanding like dignity and dignity with illness that it is quite important that when people are ill.
To restore and keep and maintain dignity even when you are ill and you know when we let’s say go to the hospital Physicians you know
it’s very interesting to me I mean you’re guessing basically get Stripped Away of all your.
Sorry things are kind of like your ego right your clothes your nice clothes your.
Your possessions your you know your makeup as a woman all you stay in sort of get kind of taken away and you’re left bare bones with a gown that doesn’t cause you know in the back of your butt so you’re really quite vulnerable
and you’re basically you know that not literally naked but in a way I mean you all these things that we
layer upon layer when you’re not in the hospital gown
you know you do you no longer have to be the same protect you so it was sort of seen him in this vulnerability even though he was not in the hospital gown but you know he was in diapers she was bedridden
and there’s just an interesting Dynamic that I saw there that I had ever experienced I had never really been around you know ill people or been in a hospital and I think that really.

[7:21] Spoke to me and made me decide.

[7:25] You know I want to sort of be in office Edition but like I want to be like a Healer I want to be somebody that.
You know can restore dignity can help people during illness
when when you are this wonderful State and that sort of started me in the process and I went back I was in college and I went back I guess it was probably I guess my sophomore year
and I decided you know I want to go into medicine and I have to figure out what I need to do and you know down the road you know all the stuff that you had to do so I think that was for me.
How is sort of started and what fueled me to go into because I didn’t.
You know I was in 5 years old when I dream to be a urologist and you know direct do exams I was not my dream but you know it really just was sort of the beginning I want to do medicine and I didn’t know till later was sort of specialty to go into that was a another decision.
That was a time I think where it all started that’s a really powerful story which I appreciate.

[8:24] You sharing with us and I hear a lot of stories but I have to say.

[8:30] That sort of thing a really really personal experience with a dehumanizing disease certainly tells a powerful story and it obviously had,
a powerful effect on you when I ask you one other thing about your lawn your younger life.
So you actually came to the US at a bit of very vulnerable.
Age you know at the onset of your adolescence and I’m wondering.
Did that have any upsetting effect on you and where their difficulties with the language or what was it like for
twelve-year-old to be suddenly uprooted and drop down in a completely different culture.
How did that affect you at that point your life yeah that’s a great question and you know very absorbent so yes
I think there is a magical age where the transition becomes a lot more challenging for children and my sister I have a sister she’s two years older and I will say that definitely for her it was a lot more challenging and I think the effects you know have been seen just
through her life because it was like she was a little bit older so I think her answer mine even though we’re in the same household would be very different for me.

[9:46] You know we both went to private school in Mexico City and so we did have half day English have these Spanish although we never truly spoke it
you know anywhere other than the classroom so I had never really spoken English until I came to the United States
and you know just came and it was like okay well now you got to speak English because that’s what it is I mean it’s not like there’s a choice that we yeah we just
like I remember just being at the grocery store I think it was Ralph’s or something and I was like okay well I got asked for an English and I did and I didn’t feel that.

[10:21] Difficult transition I didn’t feel like this uprooted sensation or this is going to be terrible to me actually it was.
It was a good thing my parents you know clearly separated for reasons and.
Three syllable are that you know well my mother’s narcissist and my dad was bipolar and
they really didn’t have a great relationship you know I remember just mostly a lot of yelling a lot of screaming and not very sort of like loving home between them I mean there are loving to us but they were not loving to each other so to me leaving that was
actually you know a great thing because it was not you know I didn’t I remember very vividly being younger and.
Thinking like I don’t know what it’s supposed to be like but I definitely is not supposed to be like this you know there has to be a different way a loving way I home where there is love and this is not the way and.
I thought it was a good thing that we laughed and I was very proud of my mother to leave without.

[11:24] Ever haven’t had a job she was a home you know a stay-at-home mother and she came and they took a lot of Courage for her to leave and come to different country even though we
you know my grandparents live here but you know it’s a different country she had to work she has to start from zero
and work her way to to you know to a life and you know
find basic things like a car and an apartment and all these things on her own when she had never done and she also didn’t have a college education things like that so
you know I was glad I feel the transition was not difficult for me I really you know.
Just try to take up advantage of any resource and I really actually flourished a lot for whatever reason I can people sometimes ask me when what was it different what how come you were resilient or you know you you kind of sit in a like in a.

[12:17] Past to this call it quote unquote success whatever that means but you know I don’t know I just decided I’m going to make the best of it I’m going to use every opportunity and I just went from there and I didn’t
sort of look back or wallow in the Sorrows of like whatever whatever like why me or whatever it is I just really use everything as I opportunity.

[12:40] Well you certainly did and obviously were were very successful with it and I’m also interested in.
When you were
well I gather it must have been sometime during your undergraduate education that you decided that you wanted to go to medical school is that correct or did it come earlier than that
no I mean it was it was it was during the undergrads again just when I came back from visiting my father and then he passed away actually on my 21st birthday and
that I decided to start volunteering at the local hot I would do Claremont McKenna college and there was a local nearby hospital so I started volunteering there and the family medicine department and I thought that’s what I wanted to do but.
Really a family medicine I give props to them is not my personality but they do fantastic work I could never do but I started there and then I decided yes I definitely want to do this I love this.

[13:34] I love you know really seeing patients at helping people and I got to really when I was there as a volunteer quote unquote.
It was in Pomona the city with there’s a lot of Latin patient so I always got to go in because I would translate for the doctors
so to me that was very fun because I got to kind of see more things you more things because I was able to help them and I saw that there was any educational for yeah yeah it was it was fun and there was a need that I saw there’s a lot of patients in sometimes the doctors didn’t speak
the language and so I was like well then I can do this you know this is something I can contribute as well so I really got very excited about it and I decided to pursue medical school and when you got into it did I even
and when you got into medical school at UCLA.

[14:27] Did it feel right from the start I you know I know those early years the basic sound science years can be sort of.
Dry and a lot of people wonder if this is what they really want to do but what kinds of feelings were you having at that point said you had taken the greatly,
yeah I actually so that’s a great question to I actually for example call it some people love college to me college the best part of college was when I went
one when I went abroad to Spain for six months and that was a great time for me and 2 when I ran cross-country those are probably my favorite times and obviously my friendships but apart from that I didn’t like love colleges much
but for me medical school was just an incredible experience I.
Really loved medical school I felt that the people there were so inspiring we had my classmates starting from.

[15:17] 18 years old to 36 years old and they were so diverse and
you know backgrounds and you know where they came from and not just culturally or racially but just experience and to me it was such an amazing group of
you know colleagues that were just doing amazing things and it was inspiring to be there
it was a very positive sort of plays group and I really loved it I liked it even from the beginning the Spacek signs
you know we were the first class at UCLA that where they switched the curriculum to a
Oregon bases them so it was a little bit different and I really liked it it kind of it was fun to fun to I guess be a little guinea pig of the new system.
But but it was a nice system I think working with my personality and I really like that I never felt like oh this is not what I want to do I thought like yeah bring it on this is awesome I really I really like it.

[16:13] Well that’s good thing and did you actually was it during medical school that you began to think that.
Maybe Urology was where you should be or did that come later.
That came probably at the time of the rotations when we had to kind of decide what to do I didn’t know again about it,
at any time before that I had to just choose and it,
probably came my third year as well rotating through trying to decide like what do I want to do and you know I sort of.
Either choose as your your personality chooses it I don’t know if you don’t know ahead of time.
So for me was definitely a split between okay is going to be a medical specialty or Surgical and it definitely was a surgical eye.
I admire people that can you know do differential diagnosis for 25 years but that’s not my personality and that was that was difficult for what just your results right yeah one results I’m like action-oriented I.
I want to see a problem and I want to fix I don’t want to do it and get it done and and that sort of surgery so to me like.

[17:16] You know patients that have retention and it’s like down a problem I’ll solve it I have the scales when it gets challenging and I get calls after the you know fifth person tries and I get it done and then it’s like
very rewarding so it’s just sort of my personality so I
really thought okay Surgical and then I just went down the list of each one and I was like well you know neurosurgery sounds fantastic but half of the patients are in the ICU they’re not even awake you know I don’t get to talk to anybody this is not for me.

[17:45] In Ortho that sounds great but you know I don’t have time for the personality even though I really like the guys there but you know and I really don’t like broken bones either so that’s a problem and you know I just went down the list down the list on the list and I thought well Urology is
surgical is also you can be very Medical but not too
differential diagnosis is much easier and people are fun like right like we definitely have a little bit of a sense of humor we’re now so you know
now so uptight about things at a time then we how can we receive penises and vaginas all day you can have to have a little sense of humor and so I thought yeah I want to do it and I
you know I get my personality I want to do something hard I want to do one of the hardest ones that more challenging to get into and.
No that is one of the ones I surgically so I said that’s what I want to do I want to do the difficult one I want to do the one where there’s not a lot of.
Me there and there aren’t there’s 10% of women urologist and their 0.05% urologists are you know female and Latino so there’s not a lot of us and I thrive and you know being,
sort of like different than others to me that is my superpower is not my weakness and so to me it’s like yeah it’s awesome this is what I want to do.
Yeah you sort of anticipated my next question there and that is,
and I think it would be the question that a lot of people would like to ask when you’re when you’re going into a specialty that is.

[19:08] So heavily dominated by the opposite sex you obviously had to have.
Given that some thought and I really want you to be as honest as you’re willing and tell me
if you experienced any pushback along the way either with it within your own program or later on in private practice how has it been with respect to your acceptance as a female.
Yeah there’s that there is a very good question and yeah in my program I went to Kaiser Permanente Los Angeles and there were me think now.
I guess my chief was maybe the second or third woman in the whole program’s history and so it was my chief and there was
somebody ahead of me Melanie were so who is actually now the chief of you know a big
chief of Kaiser Permanente but she was ahead of me and then it was and then that was it other person so yes although in that sort of closet was a chief.

[20:07] Somebody above me and myself that’s kind of was a lot but it had not been many you know ever for the last 20 30 years so
it was still sort of knew even though there were some other women there but I never ever fell during residency any challenge any.

[20:28] You know different treatment from
colleagues or from attendings I did not feel that now from nursing staff I’m not going to say that that was not the case because we do feel it
bias is real
and is usually overall woman that tend to be the ones that are not as friendly or supportive and especially nurses sadly are the ones that usually give us a hardest time
don’t respect us as much or treat us differently sadly and I don’t you know we can have a whole debate about this but that’s the only time maybe I did feel something different or different treatment
but I didn’t even as an attending I mean the there were a couple times I actually had my colleague
be my assistant during a robotic surgery and the nurses instead of asking me oh dr. London your what do you want they would ask my colleague what they wanted and I said excuse me it’s not their case it’s my case,
and it’s not about the ego but it’s just about you know I understand the dynamic that is happening here are about communication.
Correct and certain is about a little bit of respect and so those are few instances I have felt.

[21:40] And again everybody has a bias and this is sort of no way a great platform because you don’t see what we look like these are sort of the additions you know the.
Music auditions where they don’t see the person and you don’t have to have your buyers of
what people look like but once they do you know people will make assumptions just by looking at me or in night
you know where I looking at you you make a lot of assumptions about what the person is or isn’t and many times those are not true but they make them and then they are act according to their stories they tell their brain which again they may not be true,
so you know people make those and what I say about that is like those are your opinions you know.
Whether you would like me hate me whatever it is so sorry yours and you get to keep them I don’t have any responsibility for them I don’t own them and
all that is about you and not about me so I really just you know go on my Merry life and you know I don’t take that stuff personally because it’s you know I know who I am I’m very confident my skin I love myself and you know not as a narcissist but I like I truly do know like who I am and so it doesn’t affect me
the opinions that you may have because again those are yours they’re not mine so again when those things happen now that’s okay I mean.

[23:00] That’s sad like that maybe you don’t want to get to know me or you don’t want to treat me as nicely as a male colleague.
Or you’re the nurse that brings my male colleagues coffee every morning and I sit next to them and you don’t bring me coffee you know I mean that’s all you it’s not on me you know so I don’t take that stuff personally at all.

[23:17] Well you certainly don’t sound like a narcissist but you certainly do sound like a pragmatist and and it has served you very well
and then as we move along in your career interesting Ali once you’re finished with training
and you’re ready for practice you decide to move to the opposite Coast what was that all about.
Miami yes well my husband he was in private equity and he,
basically at the end of my training got a job to head the private Equity division for Latin America for this company that he worked for.

[23:58] So that meant that we would move to Bogota Colombia he’s from Colombia and from Mexico and so that was the job and I knew about that you know about a couple years before I graduated and.
Before we graduated his job really was transitioning from San Francisco to LA San Francisco to LA and then when we.

[24:18] When I when I was going to graduate he was going to really we were going to move just to Columbia and so I said you know I said yes we’re going to do that but,
you know the time got closer and closer and closer then I started researching what am I going to do in Colombia and you know there’s like six urologist and Columbia total.
Who are women.
Most of them were doing Pediatric Urology and so I said what am I going to do there you know like I know that your dad and your brother and I are never going to come to see me ever and I don’t want to do pediatrics that’s not what I trained I don’t have a fellowship I do not want to do that.
So I said I can’t really do this and I just started looking for jobs and I was like Miami’s close enough to Columbia let me see if we can get a job there,
and I did I just sort of last minute.

[25:08] Found a job and he ended up commuting now not from San Francisco lay back from Colombia to Miami every week yeah and he did that for you know about probably guess two years or so until then you know I had my daughter and
you know that was a little challenging to wanna have any family in Miami to have a daughter that.
You know it was just born and we had never had kids so the first one is a little bit of a challenge to do alone and that he was traveling every week so and then I had a job and all this stuff so yeah some things had to change their to
but so then they did as well but that’s really why we went to Miami well I have another.

[25:50] Little bit of an off-the-wall question that you stirred my imagination you were talking about how few.
Female urologist there were in Colombia.

[26:05] Do you think that existed that that reality existed because.
They different attitude between the sexes in South America or absolutely of course yeah we cannot know no absolutely I mean we cannot deny
um the different cultures and all of them American I just Colombia or Mexico mean it’s machista culture
you know and also the not just the culture but the,
you know sexuality is sort of still very taboo I mean we don’t talk about it at the dinner table I mean my father was a little bit more you know more open about this but many many many many families do not talk about this and.

[26:51] You know even the fact that I’m a urologist you know some are not really you know it is advertised but not so much openly let’s say when I go visit my in-laws you know it’s sort of yes he is a doctor but.
You know it’s not like they really dive into it so there’s definitely a big component of machismo and all this and I will say that.
You know I’m very very very proud of my husband who is Colombia but
you know has been very comfortable because even if you were not Latin I mean I think some men made to have a difficult time with our profession as urologist who are female and.
Especially because I don’t do a lot of female Urology I do mostly man
and you know he is very comfortable and very supportive and it has never been an issue of my career choice and if it was you know we were not be married but you know he’s been very very supportive and so
but absolutely this is not this is a big reason of course that is a very OnPoint reason why there’s so few of them.

[27:55] Yeah and also most you know most women still like you know even though we’re in 2022 I mean there’s a lot of women to still you know are now working and say a sisters are college educated but they stayed at home.
Even though they all had a college education I mean they’re sort of job is to be home with the kids and so even if you have a college education,
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[30:27] And now let’s get back to today’s interview so you finally what made your way back to California.
And and and.

[30:43] Make sure I understand this now are you in private practice where you are now or you know I work no I’m not yeah I’m part of a group yes yeah I’m not in private practice right now mmm and you’ve been there for.
It’s been quite a while like five yeah but more than five years yeah a little more yeah let him more than five years mmm so I’m thinking you’re pretty busy
and yet you find a good bit of time for some other things you’re all rather prolific writer
if you always like to write is that kind of therapeutic for you.

[31:17] Yeah I had never truly written anything and you don’t become a writer until you write something that you know we get stuck in like well I’m not this I’m not that big you’re not going to become that if you don’t do it
and so for me you’re absolutely correct I was probably about a year ago that I wrote my first
article which was the first one that I published in the first one that I wrote like literally wrote and I did it as yeah absolutely like healing I mean writing can be very therapeutic and you never have to ever publish anything to be
therapeutic for you bad for me I was like yeah I’m going to try to publish it and you know I found out how to and I didn’t know how to do any of it or where do you even submit things to and.
I literally just have to Google this and I just did it because it was a way for me to help me
Channel my emotions help me heal and that was all coming from my second round of burnout and it was one one of the things I did to help me and continue to help me to gain Channel motions Channel my thoughts
share my voice and really to say like I do have a voice
all of us have a voice especially Physicians but any of us and you do not have to have any fancy title whether it’s MD or not MD like we all have a voice and if it is not.

[32:37] Being acknowledged let’s say where you work or not you can find many outlets I mean nowadays there’s a lot of Technology right there you can have a YouTube channel you can.
All right things and get them published you can have a tic toc account you can do anything you want and you can do things that
our passion that I passions for you that fuel you that energize you and so that has been part of my you know healing and things that make me you know wake up in the morning and stay up late and and really work on this that
really are things that maybe again very passionate and it sort of goes back to again being a Healer and not so much the Healer bit like.
I went to medicine because I care about Humanity humans and I care about that connection
when people are vulnerable I care about that connection being present with people and then yes of course along the ways I want to
be a good surgical technician and all these things that I you know I am bad I you know I know how to prescribe and diagnose and do all that but there’s more to that in medicine.

[33:42] The just being a prescriber and
you know surgical technician in knowing how to do that and you know doing all these if you do research all those I mean that’s very important but if you lose sense of
the person in front of you if you lose sense of the person that is telling you their fears or their concerns and you’re not listening.

[34:04] Then I think we lose what this is all about I mean I think.
That is what it’s all about and and some things we lose that always been lost or we never found it I don’t know which one it is I mean I’m still trying to.

[34:17] You know this decipher it.
Yeah you mentioned your experience with burnout which I think.

[34:29] Anybody who is closed through the medical profession nowadays knows that that seems to be a big problem and I.
Actually had well I don’t know whether to call it an opportunity or not but I practiced for 44 years and I actually saw that that ugly thing make its appearance when I began my practice
nobody was really talking about burnout and that’s not to say that people were not
frequently overworked and exhausted and all those things but.

[35:01] This burnout was a very new thing and I’m interested if first of all that you.
Talk to us a little bit about
how that affected you and I’m curious to know if it led if that in some way LED you into your other a vocation which is coaching yeah absolutely they both did so I’ve been burned out twice you know sometimes you can have one sometimes get it twice sometimes it just keeps happening II you know I don’t know but
the first time was when I was at my first job after residency and you know it just didn’t,
have a day offer I do probably nine months I was like more Saturday Sunday Saturday Sunday and you know a sort of told myself well it’s just only one patient I’m rounding on you know it’s not a big deal but it really does accumulate that.
Strazza lack of rest lack of just shutting off your mind and it just became additive.

[35:57] And I got to a point where I was sort of like that squirrel industry where you know it’s like it’s like panicky doesn’t know what to do and there’s obviously different levels of
I really think actually burn out as one the end stage of stress but
I also have a different definition of it but in The Superficial one you know you’re at this end stage of stress response where again you’re either just in panic mode or now you’re just completely Frozen or you know different levels but I was sort of the panicky squirrel stage
and I remember being outside the hot the hospital room of a patient.

[36:35] Trying to decide if I should put a Foley in a patient and I could not decide if I was a good idea to put it in or not because you know they had a sphincter and the risk of erosion all these things but regardless.
It’s a simple thing we do 300 times a day because we’re like the fully police right so we just put it in all day and I couldn’t decide and I remember calling my chief that I hadn’t spoken to in years and calling him and ask him like
what should I do what do you think I should do
and I got scared because I couldn’t decide and I’m like something must be wrong something is definitely wrong maybe my sugar baby I’m diabetic maybe my thyroid I mean who knows what I’m some virus something is wrong so I need to go to the doctor.
But I did go to the doctor and which I didn’t have one but I found one as a you know doctors never have doctors but I went to the doctor and I’m waiting for all these tests for him to tell me something is going on with my.
Something physical and he said you know oh here’s your Zoloft in my butt Zoloft and what do you mean and he’s like yeah you have like anxiety and
I think he was like drawing some map of the parasympathetic sympathetic I don’t know what he was doing and dopamine he was telling me about dumping me I don’t know
but I really was like what do you mean and I said okay well I’ll take your Zoloft I don’t know what that’s going to do but we’ll see.

[37:50] And I went to therapy and and then you know that’s what it was that’s what it was I mean from the chronic stress your neurotransmitters get totally you know out of.
Lot of shape and sometimes I need to be reset and that’s just a reality and sometimes yes there is something in your neurochemistry that gets imbalance and you got to fix that and also therapy how to help you
and I did that and I got out of it and then I became you know I was pregnant so
you know I decided to come off of Zola the Lord continued therapy and I was fine and I never really experienced it until of course you know
covered which you know has affected all of us in different ways but.

[38:32] Now I just really internalize you know everybody’s fear and everybody’s panic and my own panic and now it was like completely and panic and fear stage you know to the.
X degree to the point that.
Again of course now I think I have covered every day or have some physical problem and because now now I really went to
truly you can see this on my my exam so I had you know couldn’t sleep of course you don’t sleep you’re waking up every two hours I grind my teeth
but I destroyed my molars had to get a root canal I had a tooth abscess has I was extremely painful for you know for months multiple rounds of antibiotics I develop asthma which I didn’t have and it was tagged you know like confirmed on the
you know PFT test a debilitating chest pain I had to wear this holster and have an echo to make sure you know I didn’t have some.

[39:26] No problem my heart which I did not I lost 10 pounds but they don’t have a lot to lose I know you don’t see me but I don’t have a lot to lose I’m already quite skinny and
then at the end I was starting to have.
Pain in my joint to my hands and my rheumatoid Factor was elevated to from that like a big game like autoimmune from the stress being like on ridiculous amounts and so yeah so then I had always
physical manifestations of chronic stress and I was in a dark place I was in negativity Vortex I was not pleasant to be around and you know
I was not joyful let’s say that I probably hadn’t laughed unlike
year and you know I’m a urologist actually make jokes but I really had not laughed I had just been in a dark place.
And I then this found somehow like coaching and I listen to podcasts I got interested it really was changing my life I was thinking about things and then I decided to become a life coach,
but.

[40:24] The thing is I did not change because I said oh I’m going to be a life coach is my plan B I’m going to get out of medicine you know I have it all planned out I got to have these many clients I’m going to make this much money more than what I make and your ology I’m out and I actually did not.
Do any of that it didn’t change any of my job all change was.
My brain my thoughts my mind set and and I actually didn’t know I was not depressed I didn’t he’s often all that this time although you know the time I did and.

[40:53] I really just worked on my mind my thoughts and really then started to truly work a daily
on things to stop the sympathetic response and start the parasympathetic so again that’s where I started like writing and I because I started to ride and I remember I mean it’s like two weeks I rode probably 15 20 articles just like they were just coming out of me like just right right right
and to this day I think I’ve published probably about 35 articles and Ducks emiti Medscape Kevin MD thread Global you know a lot of different Outlets
I’m in podcast you know the thank you very much and I’m very grateful for this opportunity and.
I’ve just been really expressing myself expressing my true Essence and really finding a purpose and that’s what.

[41:44] Really happened on my burnout I lay in bed and said you know.
You know you called midlife crisis but it really is a spiritual crisis and lay in bed and said you know what am I good at what am I supposed to be doing
because clearly is not medicine I thought and
you know I lay in bed and thinking about this and then I had to come up with the answers and so that sort of started all this I definitely don’t have deeper not just with coaching by with meditation and other things too really,
have time to answer all these questions and to work on these questions and to really daily practice not just stuff that I preach I mean I really do do all the stuff that I write about or talk about I really do practice it has made the difference of.
Living like a squirrel or being and this negativity Vortex or being in a place of joy and happiness and enthusiasm and.

[42:37] And just being in a different place I want to run something by you I mentioned to you that.
Early in my career which I understand was just about the time that the invented fire.
Nobody really talked about burnout in medicine and.

[43:01] And then one day we all woke up and there it was.
And it occurred to me that in the early days of my practice Physicians.
I didn’t really answer to anyone other than the patient.

[43:18] Today the majority of Physicians as you know Physicians and surgeons are employed.

[43:27] By someone and even if they’re in private practice they have to deal with insurance companies and Pharmacy benefit managers and.

[43:36] Hospital administrators and the whole affair.

[43:41] And I wonder if you think if the intrusion of all those other forces.

[43:47] Put us in the invasion of our ability to make decisions thinking about nothing but the patient if that has possibly.

[43:57] Contributed to this thing that we call burnout because believe me back in the 60s and 70s and 80s we worked long hours.

[44:05] But the landscape has changed so what do you think yeah I think the Centre I mean I think that yes it’s very interesting but I think that.
20 30 years ago.
We probably didn’t see because people didn’t talk about I think it’s not that it was not there it was but it wasn’t talked about and also the even though the landscape of all these other external forces was not there.
The landscape of our talking about this was also not there at that time so I think is that bias of
not talking about it that’s why we don’t know it’s there because if you don’t ask the question or talk about the question we’re not going to know the answer in right now we are just talking about it you know
getting data about it a lot more than we were then.
So I think that is a difference and I think that the fact that there’s all these other forces can in a way influence I mean if you look at the Miss keep data you’re going to.
Get the answer what you’re saying that we don’t have enough autonomy that we don’t have respect that we have too many tasks that the more is causing all this but I think that.

[45:11] Yes that is a good start of the problem of why it is and in the step one but I think it’s also a split from these external that’s called me for says.
Add sort of stress.
The stressors to our life that we have not become good at and I’m not blaming the Physicians there’s not at blame but we have not become good about.

[45:37] Prioritizing our self care prioritizing our boundaries making boundaries making.
Saying no to these external forces because now there before they weren’t there so there was nothing to say no to it was just you and the patient but now there’s all these forces all these
requirements and they’re kind of been put upon us but we have not learned to say no or to say I’m going to stand up for this or why are we doing this and I think that is a difference
that if we actually use their voice if we actually spoke up if we actually.
You know did something then we would have the power and we would change things and again I’m not saying that it’s our fault and we we are the problem or we were not doing enough I’m just saying I see it all the time that.
Conditions are not good people get you know are in situations are not good they’re not healthy they’re not productive and nobody speaks up it’s just silent it’s crickets nobody asks why and.
And I just find that interesting like why don’t we ask why are we doing this or why are we not doing this and we just sort of our like in this hamster wheel or were sleeper I know what’s happening but nobody speaks up.

[46:53] And somebody has this because somebody has to put a boundary somebody has to say.
Why are we doing this this is not normal this is not good this is not right but we just
continue like is just okay we continue this sort of generational
trauma and health care that because it happened to me is going to happen to you because I had long hours it have to happen to you because.
I didn’t sleep for 30 hours and you have to do the same I don’t think that is the way.
But we continue that and it has to stop and until we speak up we’re going to be seeing this terrible
you know things because I mean I just came from this conference it was called woman in medicine it was a Kaiser permanent there was a speaker there and I was also doing some coaching and.
You know.

[47:43] Boundaries are very difficult learning to say no is very uncomfortable for four people including especially women we have been.
Socialize to spin are too small to accommodate everybody else and we the most radical thing a woman can do is to want something like I want this or I do not want this I mean that is from.
A book called Unbound but it is a very cool radical thing people don’t like.
Like it again uncomfortable when a woman says I want this I do not want that and it takes a lot of Courage for a woman to say that and to just stand you know.
Stand in that position and not be apologetic.

[48:30] Because we are apologetic or like I’m so sorry oh I don’t want to come back I mean I’m so sorry like you know like you come into except I’m so sorry I’m late I’m so sorry like why it’s like
no thank you for your patience I will not take care of you I’m not so sorry although you can say I’m so sorry confidently that that’s another conversation but most
woman I see when they say I’m so sorry it’s like they become smaller.
The shrink they pick the one accommodate no go in there with your shoulders up and your chest you know,
up and say thank you for your patience or I’m sorry but like without confident tone do not shrink for other people.

[49:11] So I see that a lot difference between being empathetically sorry and guilty early so exactly what you’re saying yeah there’s a difference to how you say it and and then you carry that
throughout the day and throughout every interaction like you’re too slow you’re so sorry no I’m not sorry for my existence I am here and so we have to
you know be strong and be courageous and speak up and use our voice and know that we’re powerful.
So I think we have lost that in medicine that the were we don’t have any power I beg to differ you have a lot of amazing.
People on your podcast I’ve been there all the active and right Larry I mean all these really active in these are people that do not have courage diced and even in the face of beam
bullied like that the satellite award being harassed being threatened.

[50:05] No they stand and they do what is right they do what they must when other people
you know with just one little tweet that was – that would just you know fold and be like that’s it I’m done you know but these courageous women and men too.
They stand.
When the wind is blowing them around they still stand strong and I think that is very inspiring and it’s takes a lot of courage and there’s not a lot of that there but we gotta look maybe other people that are doing that and get inspired.

[50:37] And and know me learn something from from that strength.

[50:42] Well Diana you’re very inspiring and I’ve really enjoyed this conversation it really has been quite delightful but we’ve come to the
point in the program where I’m going to get out of your way for a moment tend to give the program over entirely for you so audience we’re going to I’m going to sit quietly and dr. Diana londoño
is going to give us her personal prescriptions for success.

[51:09] Well thank you so I think the prescriptions for a success would be.
You know when you’re trying to think about whom to get advisor you know inspiration from like we talked about earlier in the segment I think the most important thing you can do as a man owes a woman is listen to your intuition.
Your intuition is that inner voice inside you that guides you that tells you that is the right answer and you actually don’t have to look externally to anybody but it’s within you.
And the way to listen to this voice as to become quiet.

[51:46] To pause because if you’re so busy with all the to-do lists and all the things you have to do you will not,
half the time to listen to The Voice is said that prayer is where you ask you know meditation or the quiet time the pausing is where you listen to the answer.
So if you’re not pausing and becoming quite you’re not going to listen to that intuition and that intuition you will know the answer is correct when you feel your body that answer.
If you feel peace and joy with that answer that is the correct answer.

[52:21] When you feel stress tightness you know heavy that is not the correct answer so I think that is really important too.
Seek advice not from others but from yourself you have the answers and probably the best advice I ever received was.

[52:40] You know nothing good in life can come when it comes from a place of anger or fear
nothing whether it’s you know a thought and action anything you do when it’s based on fear or anger nothing good will come of it and it has to come from a place of love and love is the answer that that is the best
advice in the best.
Knowledge I have learned that love is the answer when you’re a doubt and you don’t know what to do how to answer to somebody or how to act then think of coming from a place of love I’ve loved and that will be the right answer.

[53:17] And some things you know that well myself in their sort of repeat by.
If I would tell myself something 10 years ago is yes love is always the answer trust your intuition and finally.
Kids have no return policy this is not a Costco they will not take him back five years later seven years later like your mattress so they are forever so.

[53:42] Don’t have a newly Willy you know you have to know and be ready for them because they’re a lot of work but obviously there are a lot of Joy but you.
Have to have them because you want them not because the world society your culture expectations told you you should you should never do a should you should always do what feels right for you
so that is my prescription for Success well there’s a lot of wisdom in that and I’m not surprised you have obviously created or collected quite a bit of wisdom over your lifetime and I am so grateful that you
we’re willing to take the time and sit down and speak with us today it’s been a great conversation.
Before we go I want to give you an opportunity to tell our audience where you can be found and where they can find out more about you so.
What have you got for us so you can find me on my website is just www.a Anna London oh Allah and do in omega-3 like medical doctor.com and.
There’s a good way to start you can find me on LinkedIn you can find me on Twitter which is
add dianeinlondon your md also have a YouTube channel where I house mostly videos from something I found out which is physician coach support which is free and confidential platform for Physicians for support.

[55:02] In which you can go and make a zoom appointment with any physician there that will support you with anything,
challenge your having discussion idea that you want to have some support with and everybody there is a life coach and this is not about
free life coaching but it’s about support using our skills as life coaches so I found out that and you can go on that website to to learn more about it definitely
you know just be inspired from the fact that
busy Physicians are there to help you because they care about you they care about helping each other they care about humanity and
they know that there’s a way where you don’t have to be suffering and being grief and being anger and being burned and overwhelmed so we’re there for support.
And so in any of these platforms you can find more about me you know this is interesting fun you know connect with me I’d love to.
Definitely have more conversations about any of these topics I literally can talk about this for hours and I’m very grateful for this opportunity I’m grateful for this great conversation this platform
and you know to Rhonda who I met and she’s just a fantastic fantastic fantastic woman who has built this and you know she’s very humble about
about it all but she she is quite amazing founder and CEO of MD coaches and do some force to reckon with as well and quite inspiring as well.

[56:31] Well thank you for those thoughts and thank you for calling out Ronda Crow she is really the best boss that I’ve ever had and I really enjoy working for her and I’m glad you’re impressed with her as well.

[56:43] And last but not least let me say once more I don’t know.
How to thank you appropriately for taking the time to be with us but I am grateful that you were able to join us on prescription for success.

[56:57] Thank you so much for joining us today we would really appreciate a review from you and a five-star rating helps give our podcast much more visibility.
That helps us reach lots more listeners.
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[57:39] Be sure to fill your prescription for success with my next episode.