The Guide: Anita Bangale, MD

[0:17] Paging dr. cook paging dr. cook dr. cook you’re wanted in the o.r. dr.

[0:24] Music.

[0:48] Hello everyone and welcome to prescription for Success I’m dr. Randy cook your host for the podcast which is a production of MD coaches.
Providing leadership and Executive coaching for Physicians by physicians to overcome burnout transition your career.
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[1:24] My guest today is an emergency medicine physician in the Houston Texas area she’s made quite a name for herself as an advocate for Compassionate Care in the emergency department not only for patients but for each other as a part of the healthcare team.
So
Let’s hear my conversation with dr. Anita bengale well I guess today is joining me from the Houston Texas area.
Dr. Anita bangali welcome to the show it’s nice to have you thank you so much Randy I’m excited to be here.

[1:58] Well I’m really looking forward to our conversation as I mentioned in the introduction dr. bangali is an Emergency Physician but she has a really interesting.
Career trajectory and I’ve got a lot of things that I’m just dying to talk to you about but.
As we always do I’m very interested in how you got started over first of all may are you are you a native Texan I am I’m born and raised in Fort Worth wow we don’t find that very often.

[2:28] So yeah and did you do did you grow up in a medical family where did they influence come from they got you in the medical yes.
My dad is a physician he actually had emigrated from India in 1976 and has left his position as an orthopedic resident and
and came here and started his practice and at that time he was able to begin his practice without.
Completing a full residency here and it was part of a diplomacy of kind of the exchange relationship of the medical degree and so he’s able to start practicing
kind of a an immigrant story of coming with just six dollars in his pocket and and kind of rags-to-riches Tale.
Mostly because of the hard work.
That he couldn’t every day and so I would see him working and I would at that time I was able to kind of tag along and join him for Hospital rounds and so that was the kind of inspiration put the seat in place.
Did he encourage you at all did he think medicine was a good choice for you.

[3:37] Absolutely more so because he thought it’s a hobby he never talks about medicine even till this day as something that was a chore or something that he felt,
for students from some external reason it was very much something internal,
yeah and I think that probably informed some other things that we’re going to.
Talk about along your way but you did your undergraduate study at Rice University so I’m interested in finding out about your undergraduate education which you you picked psychology as your major how did you how did you make that decision,
well I’ve always been interested in why people think a certain way how people
decide to do what they do behaviors motivation and I found it just as fascinating field of study and I think so much of medicine is about
human connection and and so is kind of everyday life so I feel like it was an all-encompassing sort of degree.
And at that point were you ever even considering.

[4:44] What your long-term plan would be and it what did you do did you think maybe psychiatry.
Perhaps or was that or was it just a matter of preparing yourself for medical school yes I had actually been accepted into a program where it was with rice and
but with Baylor College of Medicine and so I kind of knew that I wanted to pursue medicine I had kind of felt that way since I was a
little kid and so I wanted to explore something that wasn’t necessarily one of the hard Sciences so to speak
because I felt like I was going to explore enough of that
during my other course of studies and so I decided to pursue something that was kind of a little bit I would say off topic
pretty smart for a for a college kid and and looking back on it are you glad you did it exactly that way.
Absolutely I’m really glad I wouldn’t change that script for anything you know we kind of go in and we’re not exactly sure how things are going to play out but looking back and.
I’m very glad that I chose that because things kind of come full circle and it’s only time.
That tells that story or that’ll is the witness to the story and so looking back if I hadn’t chosen that I don’t think I’d be where I am today.

[6:05] Yeah and as.
If tried to study what I can of your career by snooping around on the internet and that sort of thing it certainly appears to me that the connection with the
social sciences was very important for you so when it came time to go to medical school.
This is also very interesting to me I find it interesting that you chose to.
Go to one of the so-called offshore medical schools in the Netherlands Antilles out of that decision come about yes so I had finished my course work a year.

[6:46] Early earlier than anticipated and so I kind of had this year in which I came back to Fort Worth and and work.
In an undergraduate lab work in a neurologist office and actually scribed in the emergency department and I never would have anticipated that I would have loved working in the emergency department so much I
kind of.
Was too much of a type A personality in terms of wanting to control things one and to be able to have kind of a feeling of predictability to my work to my studies and so.
I think the scribing in the emergency department allowed me to kind of relinquish a lot of that control and just be able to flow with things as they came and so it was actually quite cathartic to be able to know that you can still handle things without.

[7:38] Going in completely prepared for something and so I had this year off and so at that point I had all my undergraduate coursework completed and decided to apply
to be able to start and so I started at kind of an off time in a January semester.
Yeah and you know I did face kind of quite a bit of scrutiny at the time as to whether that was a good decision or not whether I should
take additional time to prepare for the MCAT because the at that time I had not taken the MCAT and so.

[8:17] But I had a really good interview with the dean of the medical school at the time and it just felt like.
The right decision so sometimes it’s kind of like an intuition and I felt like it was just the right thing to do at that time and those circumstances and so I started,
and,
look one of the things that some of my friends from medical school and I have is at Sabre Works a buzz the name of the medical school and because a lot of times you know people are not sure,
is this just a money-making business is it an Enterprise that actually doesn’t lead you into medicine truly are you not able to pursue this
your field of choice and so there was a saying that we just came up with and it was save our works and it truly in fact
kind of was a bridge that you know has brought me here yeah.
I can think of worse places to go to medical school in the Caribbean island yeah no I know there’s just a lot of you know,
um I guess
the the face of people sometimes it’s like oh wow it must have been so glorious but then at the other time and academic medicine it’s like well what’s wrong why did you have to do that what’s wrong with you you know.

[9:32] Really you get that question sometimes oh yeah because there’s a lot of people who perhaps,
choose a non-traditional path into medicine and I think sometimes when we don’t follow the exact path that Society expects us to there can be
kind of feelings of Doubt or perhaps just a sense of inferiority that can develop,
and and so I think that.
And of course no single person is going to have an absolute traditional path and so it’s something that we just have to understand that each piece of our story may not be what Society expects it to be but.
That’s okay and we can just Embrace that
hi I’m Rhonda Crow founder and CEO for empty coaches here on RX for Success we interview a lot of great medical professionals on how they grew their careers
how they overcame challenges and how they handle day-to-day work I really hope you’re getting a lot of great information.

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[11:18] We’ll get back to our interview in just a moment but right now I want to tell you a little bit about physician Outlook.

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[12:21] And now let’s get back to today’s interview.

[12:23] Music.

[12:28] Well it certainly apparently prepared you well enough to.
Get into a good post graduate training program at Georgetown and how did that decision come about how did you wind up in Washington.
Well I had done a lot of my third and fourth-year rotations in the Baltimore and New York kind of that I-95 Corridor and so I
hi do the territory oh yeah and I really loved
being in that area I knew I wanted to ultimately go back to Texas but I really wanted to spend some time on the east coast and I.
I had been told that as a foreign medical graduate that.
I probably wouldn’t be able to pursue emergency medicine at the time it was a pretty challenging specialty to be able to get into as a foreign medical grad and
I applied to the g.w. program which was a two through four program so the first year we had to do a.
Internship and so I had applied to the Georgetown program which was a transitional year program which was pretty.

[13:34] Highly coveted program but I remember I had a really great connection with the secretary to Wanda Sparrow she
those are good connections if she just I know we just had a spark this conversation and it was just lovely and later on she told me you know I told dr. Hazen that she’s a good one,
and I feel like that is the magic that helped.

[13:59] That happened it’s nice to run into a little magic every now and then oh yeah and I feel like kindness helps that magic really yeah fresh.
And once you got into that path did it feel exactly right you did you think.
Wow this is exactly what I thought it was going to be or were there any doubts along the way.
I felt the work of emergency medicine that Rush of energy and that kind of curious energy I felt when I was on shift was exactly what I was looking for I think
when I felt doubtful and it was that the doubts were more.

[14:38] Because of my internal fears I didn’t feel confident enough to do maybe certain procedures.
Because you’re learning Them In the Heat of the Moment of the actual trauma for example and I just remember feeling.
Sometimes like an imposter like walk how am I like.
This person’s life depends on me and who am I you know and but it’s that external support from your attendings from your fellow residents that fuel you to be able to feel like you can do it but mainly
it’s as you start doing it as you almost imagine yourself as the success that you want to be and that’s what helped me.

[15:24] I kind of have that doubt diminish.
Sure and you actually stayed on in the East a little longer out in Falls Church once you once you got into.

[15:38] Private Practice did you immediately feel like you were.

[15:44] You are ready for the task or was there still some anxiety at that point well it was nice because the year my intern year the Georgetown transitional year was located primarily I know of a Fairfax
and after I finished my chief here,
my first two years as an attending were based out of Fairfax Hospital as well so it was comfortable ground for me,
I knew several of the the hospitalist some of the Specialists and obviously some the people who worked in the emergency department for my residency days so it felt very comfortable.
Naturally the work and the pressure that’s put on as an attending is very different than even when when you feel like you’re all high and mighty is a resident yeah.
And then was there some particular moment when you decided it was time to go back to Texas or.
How did that work out yeah so my my,
so my I met my boyfriend at the in fourth at the end of fourth year of medical school and he.

[16:55] Who’s not my husband
did his internship in Houston and then did the rest of his residency in radiology at George Washington as well so we had spent some years apart but then together in DC and
I decided to stay on
that Fairfax because he was still finishing his residency and then when it came time to for him to do his Fellowship he was able to secure position in Dallas and so that’s why then we moved back to Texas at the time.
And you’ve actually been through quite a number of.
I have different practice situations once you got back into the Houston area you want to sort of give us the elevator.

[17:38] Summary of how that unfolded from from
I guess initially an employed physician into the ownership ownership position that you’re in now.
Yeah sure so yeah in 2013 we moved to the Woodlands which is kind of a suburb just north of Houston and that’s where we moved to that area because my husband had secured a job with a group as a breast
radiologist with his group at the time and so we were in North Houston I decided to join one of the hospital systems as an independent contractor and then switch to a different group and.
And it was all hospital-based medicine we had some free standings that we worked with as well that were all
part of the larger umbrella of the system and I really enjoyed my work with St Luke’s with Kelly Larkins group develop some extraordinary friendships and work with it
wonderful team of nurses and the staff and then after eight years it was around the time when covid hit and I felt like.

[18:48] I really wanted to be able to.
Create some change I had been had previously served as a director in the group as well at the hospital I’d work nights primarily for about four years and so I had kind of taken an ebb and flow approach to my work in terms of what
needed to do at home but I decided that it was time for me to be able to make.
More of a critical change and leave the hospital and pursue work at a freestanding emergency department as an as a part-owner and.
And so that’s kind of where I am now and it’s given me a lot more autonomy in some ways than the hospital you know that I had at the hospital and it’s.

[19:35] It but it makes me really appreciate the hospital as well in terms of of certain things like having a,
so many systems so many committees in place to make sure that you know things are going right you realize that you kind of share the responsibility with the whole team whereas here it’s you know a lot of it is put on on the.
On the founding Partners I think that the concept of a free-standing emergency department.
Is not something that’s actually Nationwide it was a little it was a bit of a New Concept for me.

[20:14] Tell us some more about that yeah so,
are we see about is called America’s ER and we see about during the peak of the pandemic we were seeing upwards of 85 patients
a day so in 24 hours
and we were able to take care of anything and everything that comes through the emergency department where able to keep people for up to 23 hours for observation so for example if someone comes in with a really bad
asthma attack instead of having to keep them or transfer them to the hospital were able to keep them give them.

[20:48] Treatment over time and then be able to talk to someone that they can follow up with outpatient but stabilize them and treat them but
obviously we’re not able to perform things like surgery for appendicitis so we’re able to diagnose stabilize and then transfer to one of the hospitals so it’s kind of and it’s interesting because during covid we had a lot of patients that
sought out care in our free standings,
you would think that they needed to be in the in the hospital because they were ICU level patients but there was such a fear that had developed for people.
That they really felt comfortable it was almost like we were their neighborhood ER,
they say you know we had a lot of repeat customers a lot of patients that would come and bring their families just because they had such a great experience I felt like I was able to really connect with people communicate with patients and their families in a way
that you can in a hospital setting but it there’s a lot more challenges in the hospital setting.

[21:50] It sounds like the Lion’s Share of the patients that.
Visit a facility such as this or the ones that walk through the door on their own.

[22:03] Do or do you actually have any patients that are delivered delivered by.
Ambulance by emergency transport Vehicles yeah so it’s interesting because most freestanding emergency departments I would say don’t get ambulance traffic our America’s ER we actually have two branches two locations one in Cyprus and one in
in the back of the woodlands or Magnolia actually,
receive ambulance traffic because they’re considered are designated as level 1 free standings and so there’s a great relationship between the,
the Emergency Medical Transport Systems and our leadership and so we’re able to be able to secure some be able to kind of help.
Take the burden off of some of the traffic that was going to the emergency departments especially during the pandemic it is this something that is unique.
Texas ordered to do they do it in other states I’m familiar with the so-called walk-in medical clinics the doc in a box if you will but this sounds entirely
is it something that’s unique to Texas
I do think that it’s Unique to Texas in a handful of other states I believe Colorado is one of the other states as well I know Virginia had free standing.

[23:24] Emergency departments but I believe they were all hospital-based like they were under the larger umbrella of the hospital system and that’s my knowledge but I don’t know,
exactly all the details I see well one of the things that particularly.

[23:43] Got me interested in you and made us want to get you on this program was a tedx talk that you did about.
Reimagining your career and I think we’ll probably want to tell our audience where to find that but if you could.
Give us a little summary of what that talk was all about about reimagining your career.

[24:10] Yeah so actually two years ago I decided to pursue a certification in life coaching I was seeing,
so many of my colleagues in the emergency department feeling the burden of hospital-based.

[24:26] Medical Practice when it comes to press ganey scores or just metrics in general and feeling like their sense of validation was coming from something as external is as data points and.

[24:41] I know so many other health care workers like staff tax where they were feeling this burden as well and
I realized that there was a huge sense of burnout that was developing even two years ago and,
I decided to pursue my coaching certification more so because you see you saw the stress of kind of the modern world.

[25:06] Like the methods of work really eating away at people’s sense of joy.

[25:13] And this kind of made me think back to so many of the things I had learned in undergrad during so many of my psychology courses especially motivation and and and the ways that we.
Fuel our sense of validation like everyone in the workplace wants to feel validated but then when you’re asked will how do you how do you show that.
It’s like people don’t want a pizza party you know that’s that’s not going to do it so how do we actually do it so I,
that was basically what my talk was on is how do we feel this connection with each other and especially in the setting of the pandemic when
the strain of PPE was caught was straining the relationship between the doctor and the patient or the doctor and the nurse and all these systems were were kind of,
In Cahoots how do we still maintain that sense of who we are a sense of authenticity and connection despite all of these challenges.
And that’s kind of the essence of what my talk was on and you actually talked a great deal about how the.
The challenge of being able to work with terribly sick patients with,
the barrier of the physical barrier of the personal protective equipment that PE was a very tangible thing that.
It was easy to recognize as a barrier between you and the patient but you also went into the.

[26:43] Reality of.

[26:46] How we get graded as Physicians that don’t have anything to do with our.
Knowledgeability about the pathophysiology of disease and treatment it has more to do with patient satisfaction scores and you had a great deal to say about.
How that has become a bit of a demoralizing force.
Amongst Physicians and other healthcare workers as well can you talk a little bit about that yes I mean I remember these.

[27:23] You know these press ganey scores they just affected so much of how our.
Physician meetings went right everyone roll their eyes when when the directors were talked about press ganey scores because essentially.

[27:40] People were trying to do the right thing they were trying to communicate in an effective way,
people go into medicine especially emergency medicine because they like connecting and meeting people they like to establish Good Rapport in a quick period of time so no one is going into medicine especially emergency medicine
to be mean to people you know most most of us are just feeling.

[28:06] Like they’re treating their neighbor and and so but yet these Hospital systems,
I’ve created these graphing systems this way of collecting data and I do think that there was an intention of trying to really help the situation because I know that patients feel
they can’t connect with the doctors and sometimes doctors feel like there’s so many barriers to that connection so I do think that the original intention was a good one
yet what’s happened is that
that data-driven system has actually created even more of a barrier from from Bridging the sense of communication and I think that for example,
patients are asked well did were you provided a blanket I mean I think that.

[28:53] If someone is offered a blanket that’s a great thing but should the Physicians quality of care and treatment be based on that I mean I think many people would tend to agree that it shouldn’t be based on that or.
I think that sometimes there’s a sense that your care in the emergency department is so much service-based but
really people just want to hear that their physician is taking the time to understand and listen and that’s all the physician wants to do to but the but these data-driven tactics are.
Are preventing so much time from being focused on the actual communication with the patient and I’m not just saying this because this is what
I think this is what so much of the literature shows this is what so many of the anecdotes when you talk to both nurses and Physicians this is what people are thinking and feeling,
you know I may be a little bit of a cynic in fact I am a bit of a cynic and I wonder if you’re being a little generous and saying that these type of patients satisfactory,
metrics were.

[30:02] Well intended my impression is that those metrics are intended to determine who’s more likely to come back to your hospital or your Healthcare facility because those are indicators of Revenue,
mmm and I don’t see where there is any indication of,
an evaluation of the quality of medical care that’s being delivered in any of those press ganey scores so you tell me am I being am I being too cynical or.
Is that kind of what it’s all about I mean I think at the core you’re right that it is a it’s a business model and the the goal of the business is to create profits and this is a technique in which we can see.
How you write how many people are going to come back and I think that burden of responsibility is placed on the
on the physician and I understand why we want to provide that quality of care and that’s what I’m saying like the reason I say that the whole point was to try and.

[31:11] And create a connection through this data is like Yeah The Physician wants to treat the.
The patient wants to receive good care the hospital or the medical practice wants to generate a profit like all of that is in agreement you know but somehow the system.
Has created a completely fractured mindset where people are not on the same not at the table together.

[31:38] But I think if people can think about it as hey this is a way where we’re all speaking the same language but the but the method in which it’s done is that
okay we’re going to look at this this pattern of numbers and then we’re going to completely demonize the people in the lower quartile.
And then,
and make Physicians you know videotape them see how they’re actually talking to patients make them sit in a room and analyze their their performance I mean it’s just it
I just think it’s it’s very interesting that this happens across so many institutions and practices.
Yeah it is very interesting so it’s some point during your Ted Talk it seemed to me that you were telling us that.
Covid sort of gave us an opportunity to re-examine ourselves a wake-up call if you will because it puts so many barriers between the physician and the patient and.

[32:44] Maybe shined a light on some barriers that were always there that we were that we were not aware of.
What do you think would happen if covid vanished if we we learned enough from it that we actually are likely to do better or.

[33:01] Now or have we learned nothing at all.
I think we’ve definitely learned a lot I think that we’ve we’ve learned that there’s so much of a psychology
of how we treat people as opposed to just the medicine like the art of medicine is the art because it’s the art of how we communicate with people how to
Abate some of the fears that they’re coming in with that it’s not always just medical and I think that covid really shined a light on that
and that the way that we can communicate with people sometimes means less testing you know I mean I think now people understand.
That hey you don’t necessarily need antibiotics for a virus people are more aware of that of course we had that with flu of course that we had that would seasonal viruses but I think it’s kind of the public knows a great deal more about,
sometimes you don’t have to necessarily seek care for something that you can manage at home,
but when people are coming in sometimes it’s not just for the medical reason it’s like a well what is really going on here like why what are you scared about what why are you in the emergency department
and sometimes they just need a few minutes of talking and not necessarily a whole slew of tests so I think.

[34:19] Sense of communication is is what covid has actually taught me and that’s it’s changed the way I practice.
You’ve also got some experience with telemedicine that is,
a venue in which you have no other method of interacting with the patient other than having a conversation.

[34:44] I’m interested if in some strange way you actually found that to be more rewarding rather than spending your day.

[34:54] In an emergency room feeling as though you were working under a timer as it were.
Yeah I mean I love the adrenaline the rush of being in the emergency department and I but I enjoy telemedicine aspects as well I mean I work with a company called Brightside health and
it’s been about four years little over four years where I’ve been working with.
Patients that have primarily depression and anxiety and work to help treat some of their symptoms and.
That’s kind of what even prompted me to go into into the life coaching side of my work as well as because I was worried,
talking to so many people between the ages of 18 and 40 who did have real symptoms of anxiety and depression.
And but in talking to them I think so many of these symptoms had developed because.

[35:52] Of the social pressures that they were feeling whether it was from social media whether it was from feel a sense of feeling like they had to be something because of the demands that Society was putting on them and not.
Necessarily because they had.
A real with some major trigger in their life it was all these micro triggers I would say that had developed over many years and so as we started talking about it I realize that
many of these people didn’t necessarily need medication or pharmaceutical treatment they needed more of social prescription of hey let’s let’s
tap back into what is your passion what do you like to do who are you connecting with who are you actually having a conversation with in real
life as opposed to a text conversation with you know when is the last time you.
I called and talked to a friend on the phone these types of things are went to a dance class and and or exercised and as we started.
Focusing on that little small gains every day a lot of times these people did not necessarily need to be on medication Beyond a few months and so that.

[37:04] Kind of made me realize that.
So much can be accomplished not like just seeing someone through the computer and just if you’re willing to listen.

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[38:33] Anita this is been a lot of fun talking to you and I really appreciate you spending the time with us but we are at the point in the program now where I want to step out of the way.
And give the floor to you so I’m going to close my mic and dr. Anita bangali is going to give her a prescription success thank you so much for Andy well for my general thoughts on my prescriptions for success.

[38:58] I have four four main points the first is don’t ever be afraid to ask for help
I think so many times those of us in medicine especially moms and Medicine feel this burden of having to do everything for everyone at the same time and
I think once we release that pressure it actually allows things to fall in place if you have to have someone help,
pick up your kids from school if you have to have someone help with cleaning if you have to lean on your partner more than you anticipated all of these things are okay and even professionally if you have to ask for
changes in your work schedule or trade shifts all of that is okay but the more that you open up and ask for help the more you’re going to allow someone else to be able to do the same and it’s going to
bring about a much more joyful work situation and family situation the second thing I would say is that the bumps in the road the challenges are what.
Don’t ever shy away from sharing those stories because most of the times the the challenges that we Face are something similar to what other people experience it’s kind of like the the way would that we hear about,
the butterfly in the Cocoon if we actually cut the Cocoon open the butterfly dies.

[40:23] And is never never released.
It’s that struggle of that butterfly trying to emerge through the Cocoon that actually fills its wings with blood and it’s what allows it to fly eventually so that struggle the challenge of what we’re facing is a necessary part of
what we need for success in the future because we look on that those are those are the opportunities and the times that we,
the tools that we need to succeed in the future so share the stories because most likely someone.
Even if they have an experience that specific struggle they’re going to experience something similar and probably can learn and benefit from your,
lessen the third thing I would say is that a small conversation any just a few minutes of talking is actually one of the best prescriptions in life.
That.
Conversation that connection is the key to be able to feel a connection with someone and develop that happiness down the road so if you’re feeling any type of frustration resentment anger.

[41:27] It’s okay to actually open up and have a conversation so many times we feel like we cannot have this Express these feelings for that the emotions we have to bury them
but if we acknowledge it label it and actually have the conversation with someone about it it actually helps us release it.
And and move on and the last thing I would say is release that sense of perfectionism no
buddy is perfect and whatever mistakes have been made you embrace it and and allow it to be part of your character and and it’s that imperfect Perfection that.

[42:05] In each of us that is allows us to be authentic and and makes,
each of us so special and I guess five the last thing I would say is never be afraid to just hop on a plane every every flight
that I’ve decided to spontaneously get on leads to so much more Adventure I’m not a fashionista I am not anything but one place where I will splurge is on travel,
and those are my five prescriptions for success,
and thank you so much for sharing with us and neither has been a lot of fun talking with you today and I really enjoyed getting to know you I’ve been fascinated by the tedx talk that I saw I encouraged
our audience to look that up and take advantage of it it’s really quite spellbinding
before we go I want to give you an opportunity to tell our audience where they can find more about you and find you in particular if you’ll
go ahead and share yeah definitely so I do have my own coaching business called via coaching via in Sanskrit means light and I fundamentally believe that,
the we can if we can share each other’s internal light with the world then.

[43:22] We can kind of evade all the darkness and so my coaching
is basically online or in person for those who live close by but you can find more about it
www.nissanofbowie.com that’s a nit a
ba Ang a Ellie.com there’s a lot of information that I work with families I work with Healthcare professionals I work with high school students and young professionals and to kind of.

[43:52] Empower high-achieving people to be able to embrace that unique X Factor that makes them
them and I love to guide motivated students and do small group sessions as well online and in person so you’re welcome to find me there or on Instagram my,
handle is the coaching DIY a coaching people are welcome to contact me
online or over email my email address is a bengale at gmail.com and I’m always happy to.
Speak for different Medical School groups or pre-med interest groups my passion is to work with the younger motivated students to be able to help them be who they want to be.
Well dr. Anita bangali it’s been a great pleasure speaking with you today and thank you so much for being here thank you so much Randy I really enjoyed it.

[44:51] Thank you so much for listening with us today we’d really appreciate a review from you and a five-star rating helps us a lot these ratings give our podcast much more visibility.
And that helps us reach more listeners exclusive content is available on our patreon page including membership only material like personal rapid fire Q & A sessions with our guests to be sure you never miss an episode visit our website
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Learn how to get CME credit from cmf I just by listening special thanks to Ryan Jones who created and performs our theme music and remember be sure to fill your prescription for success with my next episode.