Life Changing Moments: Replenishing Ships, with Rhonda Crowe

Transcript

[0:00] Why are there so many that feel this way in the, what you would term, peak time of their career?
You know, they’re established, they’ve been working at it for maybe, you know, 10 years or so, they’re in their prime.
So why are so many unhappy?

[0:19] There are times in our lives that change the way we see the world.
Navigating these challenges can take insight, trusted confidants, or even a coach.
Explore those moments. In this companion podcast to Rx for Success, we will discover ways to learn and write our own success stories together. I’m Dr. Dale Waxman, a physician coach with MD Coaches, and this is Life-Changing Moments. What leads us to pivot in our professional lives?
As we have heard from guests on this show, sometimes it is a life circumstance or an unexpected opportunity, or just a need for a change.

[1:02] Sometimes, though the work looks vastly different, the pivot is toward doing work that reflects one’s deeply held principles.
My guest today is doing just that, deepening her commitment to the values she identified at a very early age.
Allow me to introduce Rhonda Crowe, CEO of MD Coaches, the company that produces this podcast.
If you’re a listener to this or the Rx for Success podcast, you’ve heard her voice describing the benefits of coaching.
Rhonda has had a long career as a health professional.
She has worked as a staff nurse, nursing administrator, leadership coach, and now CEO of a healthcare company.
As you will hear, through it all, she has had a singular vision that, fortunately for all of us, is leading to a more inclusive, respectful, and inclusive world.
And humane medical culture. Rhonda, welcome to Life-Changing Moments.
Thank you, Dale. It’s always so good to talk with you.

[2:04] You know, we’ve had many conversations as partners in this adventure of MD Coaches, but I recently realized that I don’t think I remember how or why you even started MD Coaches, and we’re going to get to that a little bit later. And that’s just interesting all by itself, because I think sometimes colleagues in medical professions, probably not just medical professions, they often don’t know each other’s stories. And that’s one of the things that’s really interesting to you, I know, which is why the Rx for Success podcast started. But interestingly, you probably told me the story, I just don’t remember. So here’s an opportunity for us to do that. How does that sound? That sounds great. I’m happy to share with you.
Well, if you’re asking where did it all start, I’ll go into the way back machine.
Yeah, where did it all start?
Way back. Way back, I can clearly remember, I think it was 7th or 2nd grade, I was 7 years old.
And I remember our teacher gave us an assignment.
And the assignment was to fill in the blanks of these two statements.
The first was, when I grow up, I will be blank.

[3:19] The next statement was some of the things I will do as that are blank.
And so I and my classmates, we, you know, got the crayons and the paper out and we just, you know, started to do our work.
And what came to my mind immediately, without a whole lot of thought, so it had to have come from my heart, was I am going to grow up and I’m going to be a nurse.
And some of the things that I’m going to do in my work is to help doctors help other people.
Very simple, very clear. Nice. So that’s where it started. That’s great.
And would you say that that stayed with you through, or is that a memory that you had later on in life?
Oh no, it stayed with me. And as a matter of fact, my mother must have been somewhere on the same track because she She kept the little crayon drawing that was supposed to accompany my fill-in-the-blank assignment, and I have it framed in my office.
And so it has been a reminder. It sits right there with my nurse’s cap.
Wow, that’s fascinating.
So tell us a little bit about, you know, so that took you, obviously, you’re in nursing school and then you’ve become a staff nurse. Tell us a little bit about that, about your career.

[4:37] Yeah, I went on, and I did exactly that. I guess I would say I’m fairly fortunate.
There wasn’t a lot of struggle as I was going through school, as, you know, what am I going to do once I graduate high school, what am I going to focus on?
I knew I had a clear pathway. I went to school and supported myself through that.
I’m actually the first graduate from university in my family.

[5:02] And so when you are in that role, you’re teaching others in your family what that’s like. What does that mean?
And paid for it as well. And so I like to tell folks, I went to school on the stair-step method.
I went and got my associate’s degree, which is a two-year degree, but it allowed me to sit for the nursing boards.
I passed my boards, got my license, and then I could go to work.
And then I went back to school to get my bachelor’s degree and my employers assisted with me, you know, to get that degree at that point.
And then I went on from there because after I got to my nursing career and into it a few years in, I very clearly and quickly found that it’s beyond just a clinical environment, it’s a business environment.
So the sooner I learned not only clinical language, but business language, I could put the two together and have a better understanding of what this environment, how it really operated.
So I went back and got my master’s in business. And so that’s my stair-step method.
I just want to pause there for a moment. I don’t want to get to the coaching piece.

[6:15] I don’t know too many nurses that actually have that realization about the sort of the business piece of that.
Can you say more about that? What pulled you into that?
Yeah, yeah, I certainly can. I was probably a nurse, maybe my second year, and would go to staff meetings where our nursing managers would talk about, you’re using too many 4x4s, what’s going on with the linen, there’s so much that’s being used, can you guys cut back on the number of towels you use when you’re giving baths? And I didn’t understand, what’s, the big deal? We mean, we’re cleaning people, we’re dressing wounds, what’s the issue?
And I had a really good nurse manager who pulled me aside and actually said, let me show you.
And she showed me the connection between the dollars that are allotted for each unit to operate and how they’re either conserved and used appropriately, or they may be wasted depending upon amount that’s used, supplies.
So that’s when I learned, oh, there’s a whole other side of this healthcare environment.
What can I learn and how can I become more educated in that part of it so then I have a better understanding of how this whole environment is supposed to work.

[7:35] That’s really what triggered it. Got it.
So you went from more from clinical to more supervisory kind of roles?
Yes. Yes. It actually happened really, in my opinion, trying to be a good nurse, being a good steward of all resources.
Resources are time, your energy, and then also financial. And so I was trying to be the best nurse I could be and in doing so was provided opportunity for leadership. Initially it started with you’re the shift leader and then you’re the charge nurse and then it would move on to we’d like for you to be an assistant manager. We’d like for you to be the manager.
You be the director. And along with that you’re utilizing both your clinical knowledge as well as your business knowledge.

[8:26] So they kind of grew together.
Right. So you talked about the business degree. Was that the MBA? Is that what you’re talking about? The MBA.
Uh-huh. And this was not just hospital work. You were in other kind of organizations. Can you say a little bit about that?
I sure can. Yeah. And let me step back for a moment and say that as I was growing in those roles, the view somewhat changed a little bit.
In that initially I’m caring for my assignment of patients, but as I advanced in those leadership roles, I also felt I was responsible for caring for the teams that were caring for the patients.
So I saw my responsibility expanding as to who I’m caring for. So it was patient and then.

[9:17] Medical assistants, nurses, and then as I continued to grow, it was the doctors, you know, the the vision expanded that I can help all of these people. How can I help them? So that that was the vision there. So one of the great opportunities that I had, I got to help start a wound care center and that was great. That was a wonderful experience and that was my first time working in an outpatient setting. And working inpatient is different and has different billing structures and operational approach versus outpatient. I learned quite a bit there, but that was really where I remember.

[10:01] Acknowledging the insurance component to healthcare. I can remember I had a patient who very clearly needed a therapy. And we needed to go to the insurance company and basically state our case as to why they needed this therapy. And there was continual denial. And in my youth, I didn’t understand it thought it was unfair. Can’t they understand this? And by the way, why? Where’s the doctor in this whole scenario? The doctor says it’s necessary. So it just so happens that that patient, his daughter was an executive at an insurance company. And he said, you need to talk to my daughter. Okay, fine. Well, she came to the next appointment with him, and I was kind of put on the spot.
Rhonda, meet, and I won’t say her name, and meet Rhonda. Okay, tell her what you told me last week.
So I did, and I shared my thoughts, and she must have loved the energy and the enthusiasm.

[11:08] She said, you know what, I could use a nurse like you on my team.
I’d like for you to come and interview for a spot that we have.
Would you be interested?
I was floored. That was the last thing I thought I was going to hear, but I did.
I went and interviewed and they offered me the job and I questioned, all right, that evening, what do I want to do? And I decided there’s no better way to learn how this area operates than to actually go work for them and to find out how is the operation structured and why do they do what they do? And I did. I learned quite a lot. I learned where there’s opportunity for building bridges and I also learned where there’s opposing agendas and we may not build a bridge here.
I think it opened my eyes quite a bit as to how healthcare works and where there is definite opportunity for us to continue improvement.
So I have, I’ve worked by the bedside, I’ve worked in the provider side, the payer side, I’ve been executive and worked in the boardroom as well on larger planes.
So it’s been an educational path to be sure.

[12:25] Hi, I’m Rhonda Crowe, founder and CEO for MD Coaches. Here on Rx for Success, we interview a lot of great medical professionals on how they grew their careers, how they overcame challenges, and how they handle day-to-day work.

[12:44] I really hope you’re getting a lot of great information, but if you’re looking for an answer to a specific problem, management or administration challenge, or if you’re feeling just a bit burnt out, like maybe you chose the wrong career, well, then there’s a faster way to get the help you need.
No, it’s not counseling. It’s coaching.
Rx for Success is produced by MD Coaches, a team of physicians who have been where you are. I know you’re used to going it alone, but you don’t have to.
Get the support you need today. Visit us at MyMDCoaches.com to schedule your complimentary consultation.
Again, that’s MyMDCoaches.com, because you’re not in this alone.

[13:31] We’ll get back to our interview in just a moment, but right now I want to tell you a little bit about Physician Outlook.

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It’s really unique among Physician Lifestyle Magazines. And like the Prescription for Success podcast, Physician Outlook amplifies the voice of any physician who has something to say.
It also engages patients who still believe in physician-led, team-based care.
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That’s a really great deal on this stunning publication.
And now let’s get back to today’s interview. ♪♪ Quite a landscape that you’ve covered that very few people do.
You know, you’re with a lot of different stakeholders and a lot of different angles of looking at the same issues that are challenges in healthcare.
That’s fascinating. I don’t think I knew the insurance story. That’s interesting.
So what we really want to take us forward to is, so what led to coaching? Where did that come from?

[15:06] Mm-hmm. Well along the way as I was growing in my career, you know Expanding leadership roles a part of that is doing problem-solving and doing it on the spot There are many nurses out there that were not only team leads but charge nurses assistant managers and you are many times having to.

[15:29] Troubleshoot the do more with less, you know thought process and and figuring it out as your shift goes along.
And some of those problems are interpersonal, people trying to get along with each other and maybe not getting along with each other.
It’s very educational. You’re a teacher in addition to being a nurse.
And even more so when you get really good at that, you become a listener, you listen.
And I found that many times I was being sought out, not just because I could help problem solve, but I have a bigger issue. Do you have time?
Can we set up time to talk? Can you maybe help me figure out which way I want to go with this issue I’m kind of grappling with? And that’s kind of how it started. It was this instinct that I had and the more that came to play in my career, the more I realized I need some more skills.
Let me do some more research, what is out there that can help me continue to build and grow those those skills. And that’s when I did research into coaching, and I went and got my coaching certification. And I actually started, my first coaching business was directed to nurses.

[16:49] Those that were going into management, and to the boardroom. So that’s the the range of folks, because it’s quite a it’s quite a different perspective, if you will, when you’re asked to to step from a clinical role.
And you move into a more administrative role, and how do you bridge that transition, and still be able to support everyone that you’re working with, including yourself?
Do you want to say more about that? The self? What did you discover about yourself in this?
Oh, there’s a lot of things. How to put yourself first, make sure you take care of yourself, time management, setting boundaries, understanding the importance of confidentiality. Not that nurses don’t understand that, but it’s of critical importance when people are seeking you out to talk about very sensitive problems. So, all of those things are the lessons that are learned along the way. Yeah. So, I mean, I know that I got, I think in the coaching training, there’s so much emphasis on the growth of the self, a lot of self-awareness, and so, yes, there’s a lot of growth there.
And it enables you to help others discover theirs.

[18:07] Did you actually engage in coaching with other nurse leaders in that role?
Is that what you’re saying?
Dr. Mildred Nelson Absolutely. I did. Yeah.
In addition to the work that I was doing, I was working for another company that was an outpatient setting.
My off hours, I actually had a coaching business and I would have executives reach out to me and ask, Hey, I’ve got a nurse who’s going to be transitioning into a management role. We’d like to engage you for, you know, a couple of months to help them get set up appropriately. That was one.
Sometimes there would be some, you know, disruptive type situations where there’s some team challenges, can you come in and kind of see if we can help the team work together, understand each other a little bit more? So yeah, I did pretty well with that for a couple of years.
And then I decided to dig deeper into the corporate world. And so I put that coaching program on a back burner for a while. And then so what was the corporate world work?
Yes, that was my last role in corporate medicine and it was with a very large wound care company and it was a wonderful position.
Initially started out as an area operations manager. I was responsible for several wound care programs.

[19:34] The company that I worked for contracted with hospitals and we created outpatient wound care centers to take care of patients had chronic non-healing wounds. And my role was to make sure we were meeting the tenants of the contract, checking in with the clinical team, making sure that they were following the protocols, what were their needs, you know, all of the things to make the operation work smoothly.
That was my role to check in on. And in addition to that, it was to work with the physicians that were on the staff, as well as the medical directors who are responsible for running the program and being the face of the program, the champion of the program. And as that role grew, I was then promoted into a corporate role where I was based out of the corporate headquarters in Florida, and I did a lot of traveling.

[20:34] And my role changed to where I was recruiting physicians into those medical director roles, into those physician staff roles that would staff the wound care team.
In the recruitment process, it becomes a very open time, if you will, especially if you are recruiting, say a doctor who is in New York, but the position that they’re going to is in Kansas, and they have a family that they need to move. It becomes, you’re almost imprinted upon, you know, it becomes a very special relationship. They depend on you to look for what’s the right place for me? Is it going to meet all the needs of my family? Is it going to meet all the needs of my professional career? So it’s a very intimate, if you will, if I can use that word, relationship. And I really enjoyed that. But in my observation, what I found was about, and these are my percentages, that’s nothing formal but my observation was about 20% of the docs I would be I would talk with.

[21:48] And be recruiting into these positions really had an interest in wound care which leaves a large percentage of physicians who were searching for something. They were looking, they were looking to fill a void that had become They were looking for a way to re-ignite something, to recharge, renew, to refocus, and that became concerning.
Not that I had a concern that they couldn’t do the work, by no means, that wasn’t the question.
It was, why are there so many that feel this way? the what you would term peak Time of their career, you know, they’re established. They’ve been working on it for maybe, you know, 10 years or so They’re in their prime. So why are so many?
Unhappy What led to that? Yeah, there’s a couple of responses I have to that.

[22:53] One is it’s going to help us move the conversation a little bit more forward but the other one is just to acknowledge the skill that you have Rhonda with listening for the story to be able to elicit that the stories of those 80% very different than what I would imagine most recruiters who do not have the kind of ear that you have that perhaps got even sharpened by your coaching training. But how much of a asset you were for that company to be able to really discern, this person’s really into this or this person’s just, they’re not into this, but they might be into it. They’re seeking. But also, so I just want to acknowledge that, that your good listening really helped them out individually as well as the company, I’m sure, as well. Thank you, Dave.
Yeah. So that leads to my next question because I think the next step was, So, where did MD Coaches come from?
That was the beginnings. I didn’t know it at that point. I’d like to think through most of my life, not just my career, that I’m fairly observant.
I try to be anyway. And so I didn’t know it at that point, but I was collecting data.

[24:19] It was through all the observation. And as happens sometimes in the corporate world, the company had some financial challenges.
It’s not uncommon. Many companies have those, those things, but unfortunately I, along with several of my colleagues found ourselves having our positions eliminated and I had a choice to make.
I could either dust off the resume or I could take everything I had witnessed, I’ve observed in the entire course of my career and I could try to do something that would be supportive.
And if I can go to the Wayback Machine one more time, really respond to what that seven-year-old was talking about way back when.
My goal was to help doctors help other people. Well, I did that by becoming a nurse, but.

[25:18] There’s a different interpretation of that statement. Now it was my time to help doctors so they can help other people because I had witnessed there’s a need there. And what do I mean by need? As I was progressing in my roles, I was not only through my own ambition, through my employer’s support was being provided education, resources so that I could do the task at hand. So my knowledge and my skill set was being expanded every time I was named an executive champion for an initiative.

[25:58] Many times I was being paired with a physician colleague who was also the champion, but was not being provided the same resources. It was assumed that, you know, or you don’t need that. Just let the business person take care of that. You’re here to.

[26:16] You know, basically help us move this through the clinical channels. And I saw a lot of frustration with that, a lot of concern. And rightfully so, it’s very difficult to help move an entire group of people to a concept, a goal, if you don’t have all of the tools or all of the knowledge, that is required. And it’s, it really is discounting, from my perspective, the potential that’s there. And it makes it even harder, you know, from, from my perspective, and my, my responsibility as the business person, it made it even harder. And so many times, what I was learning, I would take back to my physician colleagues and say, let me show you what I learned, let me share with you, but I found that wasn’t happening across the board.

[27:07] And it was eye-opening. Yeah, I’m curious whether that observation of kind of a blind spot that is not seen and so it was handicapping the clinicians and I’m wondering if that you saw some of, you know, he had more eyes for that, some more awareness for people don’t, aren’t put into, are put into positions, they may not have all the tools to be successful.

[27:35] They’re not set up for success. Yeah, not set up for success.
That was the way I viewed it is, I don’t believe anyone, you know, gets up to not do their best.
Sure, yeah. And they really want to. And I find physicians and nurses are very, they’re very dialed in on that. They want to do the best that they can and to not be given everything that you need to be able to deliver that, it’s beyond frustrating. It’s almost hurtful. Yeah, yeah. You know. So it sounds like that along with a lot of other things informed this decision. Let’s open this up to be supportive to at least starting with physicians, so caring for physicians who are caring for patients?
Very much so. Yeah, so clearly I made the choice to not necessarily go the traditional pathway as I had before, putting the resumes out.
It was, let’s take everything that I’ve learned, my energy, the resources that I had at hand, and let’s see what we can do to pull, not only from myself, but to bring others and include others in this process to research and provide what is it that our physician colleagues need.

[29:00] So that they can be and they can bring their best. And, you know, we often in the clinical environment provide the clinical knowledge. There’s no shortage of webinars or conferences about putting in this widget or taking out that thing or, you know, whatever.

[29:17] For the benefit of our patients. But there’s not been much attention paid to how do I take care of of the self, the person who’s doing it, so that they are fully engaged and continue to be engaged in the work that they’re doing in a healthy way, where their well-being is looked after, so they can look after the well-being of the community that’s coming to them.
So that’s where I felt there was a purpose, there was meaning in that work.
And truthfully, what all of the knowledge I’ve amassed over the 30 plus years that I’ve been doing this, where it was leading to.
And that’s where we gain.
Yeah, so let’s talk a little bit about that. You know, it’s sort of a pivot, but it’s really just a deepening in a lot of ways for you, is the way that I see it.
So, moving into starting MD Coaches, how was that for you? Scary.

[30:21] And I think if any entrepreneur that you speak with honest there there’s many scary points about doing something that you’ve not done before and the things that you don’t know there I mean there is what are they what’s the the phrase that folks say ignorance is bliss you know it’s good that you don’t know everything that that you need to know because you’ll discover it along the way and that’s actually not to sound glib but that’s become one of my phrases that I’ve really embraced and that is get started.
Perfection is is the enemy of progress, you know, and was it perfect when we started? Absolutely not. Did we learn along the way? Yes, we have and when we learn lessons we incorporate them and we improve and I think we’ve got a fairly good track record that demonstrates that we’re open, we’ve developed a culture of learning and some of our best lessons have been, well that didn’t go so well well, how can we, how can we improve upon it?

[31:37] Yeah, that growth mindset, which is awesome. Very much so.
For people who may not be familiar with all the services, can you say something about what does MD Coaches offer?
It’s for physicians by physicians. We provide physician leadership and development coaching, and our desire is to empower those physicians at any stage in their career progression from med students, residents, they’ve become established and maybe even at the end of their career ready to transition.
We’re looking to provide support and coaching resource to determine what is it that they wish to do, what are their goals and how can they help meet them knowing that they are whole and resourceful and the answers lie within.
How can we help you develop a strategy and a structure to get where you wanna go.
You know, the way I’ve always looked at coaching is I’ve always seen the person as a ship.

[32:41] That needs to come into harbor for supplies, fuel.
It’s not intended to stay in a harbor because that’s not where they do what they’re supposed to do.
They gain this, you know, from coaching. They gain the supplies and the resources that they need and then they go out and they’re productive and they do what they need to do.
And then somewhere along their career path, they may need to come back into harbor again.
And they regain perspective, they outline a goal, they get the support, and then they go back out and they achieve.
That’s how I view coaching. I love that, I love that image.
I’ve had this image of people getting off their path, but then getting back on the path.
But yours involves replenishment, getting restored with supplies and nutrition and things like that, that’s awesome.
You’ve talked about sort of the philosophy and who we are and who our clientele are.
What’s, do you want to say just briefly what some of the specific services are?

[33:42] So in addition to individual coaching, there’s some other things that are happening to MD coaches.
Oh, absolutely. We, in addition to individual coaching, we do group coaching. We can do workshops if you’re looking for something that’s custom, that’s specific to a situation or a group that you’re looking for us to work with, we can absolutely do that. And one of the things that we do to communicate these services is, and to bring highlight to the medical profession is we have these two lovely podcasts, one of which I’m on right now.

[34:22] Hosted by my good friend Dale, Life Changing Moments, and the OG, the original that we started with is Prescription for Success, hosted by our colleague, Dr. Randy Cook. On that podcast, we We really do celebrate and we focus on the path to medicine story.
Because if you’ve heard one path to medicine story, you’ve heard one path to medicine story.
They’re all so unique and so different.
And where that concept came from, just to give you a little bit of history there, was as I was recruiting physicians, I felt so privileged to have the opportunity to hear the details and get to know the people that many of us in our worst times when we don’t feel well get on average seven to ten minutes with those people and really don’t get to know who our doctors are as people. And so I wanted to bring that opportunity to our listeners.

[35:26] To understand what it takes to become a doctor. The commitment to the well-being of community is for our guests and the many varied ways that people find themselves in a career of medicine and dedicated to a life of service. It is such a neat service to those who get to be interviewed and I know that people are enjoying the stories as well but everybody I know who has been on the show that I also get to in some of them I get to interview for this one really feel.
You know, honored and support is like, nobody asks me my story. And not that, you know, that people have to celebrate everybody’s story, but there has been, as we all know in healthcare.

[36:16] A real, as it’s been shifting more towards a transactional kind of experience for patients and practitioners alike, there is less and less of this opportunity for relationship. And so you, you, I know this was intentional to really highlight the relationship and to highlight the person, highlight the human.
And so I just want to, you know, my congratulations to you for having that vision and then get to be a recipient of that, a participant, which leads me to my next question, which is what are your hopes and dreams for MD coaches?
Are big dreams. And as with dreams, they continue to build upon the previous dream. So the initial was to develop MT coaches and we’re still in process, you know, we are always a work in progress, but the next phase or the next chapter, if you will, is to launch RN coaches where we provide the same type of support and services for our nursing colleagues. Because through my own professional pathway, I have always viewed the most critical and most important relationships within the healthcare environment, create the triangle of the doctor, nurse, and patient. If we can improve the.

[37:46] The relationship and support, the communication, and be very respectful of that nurse-doctor unit, we have a better opportunity to support the needs of our patients that are put in our charge to take care of.
Let’s face it, we’re all patients at some point, so we all benefit.
So that’s the mission at this point, is to continue to not only build MD coaches, but then to also turn our attentions to our nursing colleagues.
And then there are a few other things along the road that I think we’ll probably develop out of that, but that’ll be for another day and another talk.
Very nice, Rhonda. Well, listen, it’s been very enlightening for me to talk with you.
There’s some things there that I didn’t know, even though we’ve been working together for a few years.
To our listeners, are there some lessons that you wish to impart to people who are listening to this about your journey along the way and things that you’ve learned that help you along your path.

[38:51] Yeah, thank you. Yeah. Boy, there’s I could sit here for a while and talk about those things. But, you know, right off the top of my head and my heart. This is probably what I go to include everyone. You know, you can learn from everyone. There’s there is something that you can learn from every exchange. If you take a moment, listen more than you talk that and that has been a lesson for me. In my youth, I talked a lot.
But as I have matured, I have learned there’s so much more you gain when you listen.
And those are probably two that come to mind.
And my favorite, I will share with you, I listened to every one of our episodes, and I’ve learned from every one of our guests.
And one that has stuck out to me, which I really said, Yep, that’s spot on is learn to be efficient with tasks and effective with people. That was from a recent episode and boy did it just rang so so true to me. Nice, those are all really good lessons for for life.

[40:02] Really nice but but also I really like this this concept of especially the listening one that we have two ears and one mouth we probably should be using them. That proportion I know you do that very, very, very well.
Well, Rhonda, thank you so much for being a guest on this. It’s a little bit different role for us, but really appreciate your candor and your openness and your heartfelt energy towards really healing, our healthcare system and doing it in the ways that you have and the ways that you’re going to do.
I just want to celebrate. So thank you again for being with us today.
Thank you, Dale. It has been a pleasure, as always.

[40:48] I really enjoyed this conversation with Rhonda Crowe, my colleague, and here are some of my takeaways from this discussion.
Number one, be willing to explore the reason things are the way that they are.
It may lead to a career change. As a staff nurse, Rhonda questioned why her supervisors were harping so much on how many supplies were being used, that curiosity led to nursing leadership positions in MBA and ultimately becoming a leader of her own healthcare company.
Number two, be inclusive. There’s something to learn from everyone. Number three, one way to learn from others is listen more than you talk. Number four, just get started. Perfection is the enemy of progress. Finally, I love Rhonda’s image of coaching as a ship pulling into harbor, getting replenishment and new perspective, and then continuing on with the journey.
So, if you find that you’re feeling a little or very depleted, consider restoring yourself by visiting the MD Coaches Harbor. You can find us at MyMDCoaches.com.
Thank you for listening, and be well.

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